LEED 2009 Registration Extended to October 2016

141 replies [Last post]
LEED AP BD+C, Executive Editor – LEEDuser BuildingGreen, Inc. Oct 28 2014 LEEDuser Moderator Post a Comment

LEED plaqueThe market needs additional time to prepare for LEED v4, says USGBC, which is keeping LEED 2009 registration open longer.

The U.S. Green Building Council (USGBC) has decided that requiring new LEED projects to register for LEED v4 as of June 2015 was too soon and has shifted that date back to October 31, 2016. In an announcement released this morning, USGBC said that it was giving the market more time to get ready for LEED v4 based on feedback it received during last week's annual Greenbuild conference.

According to USGBC, 61% of respondents to a survey said they are “not ready” or “unsure” if they are ready for LEED v4 and require additional time to prepare. 

USGBC launched LEED v4 in November 2013 as a more rigorous and fresh take on the LEED green building rating system, including new concepts like product transparency, whole building life-cycle analysis, and newer energy standards. The package came with a cushion: leading-edge LEED projects could register for LEED v4 right away, but you could keep registering for LEED 2009 until the window closed in June 2015. Want to play it safe? Register your project now for LEED 2009; upgrade to LEED v4 later when the kinks are worked out.

As of earlier this month, nine LEED v4 projects had been certified (one of which has shared its full documentation with LEEDuser), and 304 had started the process by registering during 2014. That's 15 times fewer than the 4,493 LEED 2009 projects registered to date. Between those numbers, the Greenbuild survey, and other market feedback, USGBC apparently decided it had heard enough and extended the LEED 2009 window another 16 months.

In a press release, Rick Fedrizzi, CEO of USGBC, said, “When USGBC launched LEED v4 last year, we set out with one goal in mind—to raise the bar in a way that challenges the building industry to reach higher than ever before. This is our nature and USGBC and its members’ collective mission. However, the market has requested additional time to prepare for LEED v4, so we are responding. “ 

Fedrizzi added, "Our international LEED users, which account for some 50% of new LEED registrations, have also indicated they would like to have more time to move onto the new rating system. This extension will be especially helpful to them.”

The LEED v4 Materials and Resources (MR) credits have caused the most angst for LEED users, with many raising questions about whether the new Building Product Disclosure and Optimization credits are too complicated, not workable, or simply not a good idea.

That credit might get an overhaul. Also at Greenbuild last week, USGBC announced a Supply Chain Optimization Working Group, the charter of which is not confined to the vague Option 3 of Building product disclosure and optimization—material ingredients; it's also tasked with "explor[ing] new and innovative ideas to evolve" all three options of that credit, which includes a variety of programs. (Nadav Malin, president of BuildingGreen, which publishes LEEDuser, has been tasked with facilitating the working group, working with Scot Horst, chief product officer at USGBC.) 

USGBC and the Green Building Certification Institute (GBCIThe Green Building Certification Institute (GBCI) manages Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) building certification and professional accreditation processes. It was established in 2008 with support from the U.S. Green Building Council (USGBC).) have not announced whether the change will impact credentialing, which switched over earlier this year to LEED v4 based exams for LEED Green Associates and LEED Accredited Professionals (LEED APs). Our guess is that there will not be a change here.

Mara Baum, vice president and sustainable design leader for healthcare at HOK, reacted positively to the news. She told LEEDuser, "This will help ease the transition to a very different and challenging system for design practitioners, owners, and manufacturers alike. Progressive organizations will continue their shift towards v4 criteria, while others can continue to advance their projects with v2009. USGBC will continue to develop incentives to encourage teams to either switch to v4 or to substitute v4 credit language where appropriate."

Referring to the 18-month cushion included in the LEED v4 launch, Baum noted, "This is the second time that required registration for v4 has been delayed. The first delay allowed USGBC to put more effort into fine-tuning tools such as the online LEED credit library and Web-based reference guide. Ironically the LEED tools are more advanced at this point than they had been at the release of 2009—it’s the market that isn’t ready yet. The roll out of LEED v4 would have been particularly challenging in jurisdictions that require certification for all buildings, or all buildings of a certain size and/or typology."

What's your reaction to the extension of LEED 2009?

 

141 Comments

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Alicja Bieszyńska Skanska
Jan 26 2017
LEEDuser Member
1500 Thumbs Up

Sunset date for v3 certification

The USGBC press release says "the last day v3 projects can submit for CERTIFICATION, remains June 30, 2021".
For projects that chose the split review, does it mean that we need to achieve the final certificate by 30 June 2012, or just to submit the Design Review?

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Marcus Sheffer LEED Fellow, 7group Jan 26 2017 LEEDuser Expert 69130 Thumbs Up

You will need to start the review process by that date. So yes that could be the submission of the design preliminary review.

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Alicja Bieszyńska Skanska Jan 26 2017 LEEDuser Member 1500 Thumbs Up

Thanks Marcus. It's clear now.

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Taryn Holowka VP, Marketing & Communications, LEED AP U.S. Green Building Council
Nov 19 2014
Guest
126 Thumbs Up

Sunset date for LEED 2009 and incentives for using LEED v4

Hi all, I wanted to update the group that earlier this week, LSC held a vote and voted to keep the original sunset date of LEED 2009 (the last day LEED projects can submit for registration of that system) as June 30, 2021.

USGBC is also working on a plan that will encourage projects to use LEED v4 through incentives and education. An article posted yesterday detailing some of the activities underway: http://www.usgbc.org/articles/new-offerings-leed-v4-projects.

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Bill Swanson PE, LEED AP, Integrated Architecture Nov 19 2014 LEEDuser Expert 23489 Thumbs Up

Can the USGBC Marketing & Communications VP please use accurate terminology.

"The registration close date for all LEED 2009 rating systems has been extended to October 31, 2016. Please note, while the registration date has been extended, the last day projects can submit for CERTIFICATION, also called the sunset date, remains the same: June 30, 2021. The decision to keep the sunset date in 2021 was voted and approved by the LEED Steering Committee."

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Brian Salazar President, LEED AP, WELL AP, Entegra Development & Investment, LLC Nov 19 2014 LEEDuser Member 1234 Thumbs Up

USGBC was actually going to *charge* project teams $100 to switch from v3 to v4? Are you kidding? USGBC should offering free registration and a rebate for those willing to move from v3 to v4 given all of the wavering, misinformation, and uncertainty around the new system.

And the web site still has no iOS support. Come on, USGBC. Get with the program!

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Taryn Holowka VP, Marketing & Communications, LEED AP, U.S. Green Building Council Nov 19 2014 Guest 126 Thumbs Up

Thank you Bill, for your correction. Even the Marketing & Communications VP makes errors sometimes!

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KONSTANTINOS VAVALETSKOS J/V IMPR. SPA TERNA SA
Nov 12 2014
Guest
32 Thumbs Up

LEED GAs and APs exams

Project Location: Greece

USGBC has announced that LEED 2009 project registration is extended to October 2016. Does anyone knows if the same applies for the LEED GAs and APs exams?

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Valerie Molinski Sustainability Guru, v2vert Sustainability Nov 12 2014 LEEDuser Member 1720 Thumbs Up

The exams had already switched over in June of this his year. I doubt they are going to roll back those.

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Glen Phillips Director of Sustainable Education, GreenCE, Inc. Nov 12 2014 LEEDuser Expert 1482 Thumbs Up

The v4 exams are here to stay. This was confirmed by USGBC in the comments section of the press release on their website.

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Renee Azerbegi Ambient Energy
Nov 10 2014
LEEDuser Member
241 Thumbs Up

Very disappointing

This extension is most unfortunate as it makes LEED out of sync with ASHRAE’s energy targets for NZE per the ASHRAE 2020 Vision. In 2016 when LEEDv4 is adopted, the ASHRAE 90.1-2016 will be out and is intended to be 30% more efficient than 90.1-2010, but LEED-2009 buildings will still be referencing 90.1-2007. Also how does this timing reflect LEEDv5 whenever that is coming out? How is the USGBC going to push the building industry to higher levels of performance when they are not even keeping up with energy code adoptions across the nation?

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Marcus Sheffer LEED Fellow, 7group Nov 11 2014 LEEDuser Expert 69130 Thumbs Up

My impression is that v5 is not even on the radar yet but I could be wrong. I have not heard anything about how the development cycle for LEED will change. There was some discussion a while back about annual updates but I am not sure if this has evolved.

Your second question is certainly fundamental to market transformation.

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Glen Phillips Director of Sustainable Education, GreenCE, Inc. Nov 11 2014 LEEDuser Expert 1482 Thumbs Up

I've heard similar that LEED v5 is not yet under development.

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Martha Norbeck President, C-Wise Design and Consulting LLC Nov 12 2014 LEEDuser Member 476 Thumbs Up

The ASHRAE 90.1 baseline needs to be upgraded for v3.
If the USGBC insists on holding to the delay of v4, v3 will become an embarrassment as it slides further and further behind energy codes. L is meant to stand for leadership.
In Iowa, v3 is already getting a little embarrassing as we discuss implementing ASHRAE 90.1-2013 next year, 2015.

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E Johnson Nov 12 2014 LEEDuser Member 5952 Thumbs Up

Martha,
How about all those single pane glazed, asbestos sided, newspaper (no) insulation farmhouses? What's Iowa code say about them? :)
I think you guys are going a little overboard, if a project wants to go for LBC, v4, or v3 that's what the project team is going to do.
I understand certain people put a lot of effort into improving the system (I did a little bit) and it understandably irritates them but v4 kind of looks like a mess (that's coming from someone who tries to know every detail of the rating systems).
Requiring different energy codes based on registration dates does seem like a really good idea for projects that are going to go on for a long time yet.

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Marcus Sheffer LEED Fellow 7group
Nov 10 2014
LEEDuser Expert
69130 Thumbs Up

Explain the reasons for the change

I would suggest that USGBC provide a more in depth explanation for the delay. In my opinion those of us who have invested hundreds of hours and our heart and soul into developing v4 deserve a better explanation. The rationale provided to date are transparently at the surface level. All this does is leaves a major void that potentially gets filled with rumor and innuendo. A simplistic press release just is not enough. Better communication from USGBC would certainly help those of us who have invested a large parts of our lives in helping LEED to transform the market. The few folks commenting in the forum are just the tip of the iceberg.

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Hernando Miranda Owner, Soltierra LLC Nov 11 2014 Guest 13748 Thumbs Up

Marcus, the solution to keeping current is what was done with LEED during LEED v2 (2.0, 2.1, 2,2). That worked well. Why did the USGBC decided to go with a wholesale revamp of LEED is what should be explained. A very intelligent group of people figure that going with .x versions were necessary to not overwhelm the market with too many changes made at one time. That hard work people like put "our heart and soul into" has been completely erased.

LEED 2009.1 (v3.1) should have gone out a few years with standards updated to be current--and energy point adjusted to keep some reasonable similarity with 3.0 such that v3 projects are not penalized by new standard version. Changes to credits that were not based on standards would be minimal, and changes made would need to be justified.

LEED v4.0 is where the ratings bar moves upwards--harder to earn points. But once again, wholesale credit requirement changes would be avoided.

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Marcus Sheffer LEED Fellow, 7group Nov 11 2014 LEEDuser Expert 69130 Thumbs Up

The materials credits clearly needed to evolve but maybe it should have been more incremental.

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Hernando Miranda Owner, Soltierra LLC Nov 11 2014 Guest 13748 Thumbs Up

The material credit evolution was discussed for LEED v2009, even during v2 development. The changes were deferred. Because the changes to the materials credits were significant they merited being the sole reason to move LEED one-step forward with minimal changes made elsewhere. In my opinion, moving to a new version of ASHRAE is not a minimal change. ASHRAE updates are necessary changes that could have been included with a revamp of the materials credits.

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Christopher Schaffner Principal & Founder, The Green Engineer, Inc. Nov 11 2014 LEEDuser Expert 9153 Thumbs Up

Hernando:

I'll agree and disagree. It's been 15 years since LEED NC v2.0 was introduced. 2.1, 2.2 were very minor changes. Even 3.0 didn't actually eliminate any non-functioning credits. LEED has been overdue for changes in the material and IEQ sections for quite some time. If not now, when?

Having said that, I think the approach going forward should be toward regular, incremental changes, on a predictable schedule. A continuous maintenance approach similar to other standards.

Further, I worry that we've lost sight of the crucial part of our mission. A colleague said it best - "rating systems have taken on more and more social and economic issues – these are all worthy causes, nice-to-have, but compared to the frightening consequences of global warming and need for VERY urgent global action they are of marginal importance."

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Hernando Miranda Owner, Soltierra LLC Nov 11 2014 Guest 13748 Thumbs Up

Chris, I think we are the same incremental change needs to come back boat.

If by non-functioning credits you mean credits that did not seem to do anything, that was intentional. If all of the LEED credits were hard to do then you must have fewer credits in LEED.

In terms of VERY urgent global warming, the problem with LEED is that it is based on ASHRAE as the sole determiner of points won.

I managed to keep a LEED project at Platinum, much to the shock of the GBIC who seemed to bet against me that I would only earn Gold for the project after the preliminary LEED review. The energy analyst was forced by remodel the project, and the reviewers knew that several point would be lost. I was not worried as much because I knew the changes would result in points lost, but should not be significant in terms of total energy use. I was correct. The project earned every energy point it originally submitted, and it was able to slightly reduce the amount of on-site renewables that were allocated to the project to earn all of the energy points possible.

So, a project that suddenly loses several LEED energy points somehow documents that it actually uses less total energy than a "more efficient" LEED building. That is a problem with how ASHRAE points are awarded in LEED. That Platinum building is responsive to global warming, LEED energy efficiency notwithstanding.

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Nadav Malin USGBC LEED Faculty, President BuildingGreen, Inc.
Nov 10 2014
LEEDuser Moderator

EBOM v4 prereqs a barrier?

Project Location: United States

Gary--I'm interested in your experience with the College that couldn't do EBOMEBOM is an acronym for Existing Buildings: Operations & Maintenance, one of the LEED 2009 rating systems. v4 because of the prereqs. Can you say which prereqs were the challenge? And, perhaps more to the point, will the school be in a position to achieve by the original v3 phase-out date of June 2015? Or by the new phase-out date of Oct 2016? Or are they something that will continue to exclude those projects?

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Gary Shlifer Green Building Professional LEED AP BD+C, O+M, Homes - Chief Sustainability Professional, Green Building Florida Nov 10 2014 Guest 272 Thumbs Up

I'm a bit confused about your question. Are we talking about the now new registration close or the sunset of v3? Assuming you meant sunset, that wasn't an issue. (06/30/2021)
The University was registered in 2013 and chose to pursue EB:OM v4 under the pilot program. Prerequisites EA and IEQ were the main issue. Also accruing enough points for the goal of Silver was part of the decision to move back to v3.

EAc2: Min Energy Performance (then gaining any points under EAc4), IEQp1: Min IAQIndoor air quality: The quality and attributes of indoor air affecting the health and comfort building occupants. IAQ encompasses available fresh air, contaminant levels, acoustics and noise levels, lighting quality, and other factors. Performance. We could achieve WEp1, but couldn't get any of the 5 points with WEc2: Indoor Water Use Reduction under budget constraints.

The new 'registration close' date is a good thing. I'm wondering if the sunset date will be pushed to coincide?
Hope this helps.
G

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Marcus Sheffer LEED Fellow, 7group Nov 10 2014 LEEDuser Expert 69130 Thumbs Up

USGBC policy is to sunset rating systems 6 years after the date they stop taking registrations.

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Perrilyn Fanfulik PE, LEED AP BD+C, WMATA Nov 10 2014 LEEDuser Member 265 Thumbs Up

USGBC has already indicated that the sunset date will not change for LEEDv2009.

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Marcus Sheffer LEED Fellow, 7group Nov 10 2014 LEEDuser Expert 69130 Thumbs Up

Apparently policies are meant to be unilaterally changed.

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Taryn Holowka VP, Marketing & Communications, LEED AP, U.S. Green Building Council Nov 10 2014 Guest 126 Thumbs Up

The LEED Steering Committee will be discussing the LEED 2009 sunset date and will have a definitive sunset date in the next week or so, provided there is agreement within the LSC.

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Glen Phillips Director of Sustainable Education, GreenCE, Inc. Nov 10 2014 LEEDuser Expert 1482 Thumbs Up

@Taryn

Thank you USGBC for poking your head back in! Can you confirm that the LEED Steering Committee was engaged on the decision to push back the registration close date?

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Taryn Holowka VP, Marketing & Communications, LEED AP, U.S. Green Building Council Nov 10 2014 Guest 126 Thumbs Up

Hi Glen - the decision to leave LEED 2009 open for the additional time was driven by staff (and not an LSC vote). In the past as well, this has been a staff decision rather than something we've taken to the committee.

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Barry Giles Founder & CEO, LEED Fellow, BREEAM Fellow, BuildingWise LLC Nov 11 2014 LEEDuser Expert 9016 Thumbs Up

Taryn. The LSC's responsibilities are:
The LEED Steering Committee (LSC) is an integrated group of volunteers and staff charged with developing and maintaining LEED as a leadership tool, preserving the integrity of the LEED rating systems, and ensuring the use of the consensus process to evolve LEED in accordance with the mission, guiding principles, and strategic plan of USGBC. (Taken directly from the USGBC website)
With respect to you and your team it looks like that the LSC might well have failed in those duties, namely : 'maintaining LEED as a leadership tool' and 'preserving the integrity of the LEED rating systems'.
In great mitigation I do believe that these decisions were taken by staff at higher 'pay-grade' levels than those of the hard working staff associated with the day to day running of these committees, however we are all now fighting a rear guard action to mitigate these poor decisions (V4 backslide to V3 and LDP) when LSC should have perhaps provided the opportunity for committees, membership and staff to have better input.
Obviously looking back membership has probably seen this coming for some time and should have requested bigger roles than they currently have, but turning some of these decisions around while allowing a 'saving of face' is going to be an uphill struggle.

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Mark Perepelitza SERA Architects
Nov 10 2014
LEEDuser Member
24 Thumbs Up

LEED v4 delay with ACC implications..??

Project Location: United States

One thought that keeps coming into my mind is how this comes on the heals of the recently announced 'partnership' with ACC. My guess is that this has something to do with the delay. In an effort to for ACC to partner in good faith with USGBC, this seems like a likely request 'delay v4' and give us time to work out the 'kinks' with disclosure. The ACC is notorious for delay tactics. This has the air of that for sure.

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Marcus Sheffer LEED Fellow, 7group Nov 10 2014 LEEDuser Expert 69130 Thumbs Up

Sorry drawing a blank - ACC?

Assuming it is not the Atlantic Coast Conference.

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Bill Swanson PE, LEED AP, Integrated Architecture Nov 10 2014 LEEDuser Expert 23489 Thumbs Up
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Marcus Sheffer LEED Fellow, 7group Nov 10 2014 LEEDuser Expert 69130 Thumbs Up

Thanks. Of course as soon as I wrote it and sent it I figured it out. Very interesting thought. Things that make you go hummmm?

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Valerie Molinski Sustainability Guru, v2vert Sustainability Nov 10 2014 LEEDuser Member 1720 Thumbs Up

Some are making that same connection re: the delay and the ACC.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/business/2014/11/09/lobbyists-pr...

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Bill Swanson PE, LEED AP, Integrated Architecture Nov 10 2014 LEEDuser Expert 23489 Thumbs Up

I would say their tight lip on this is a point of confirmation.

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Martine Dion Director of Sustainable Design, SMMA Nov 11 2014 LEEDuser Member 38 Thumbs Up

I agree with the tight lip confirmation. I see the ACC lobbying on a national level having a huge influence on the 1.5 yr delay. Why 1.5 yr? Why not 6 months? 6 months should have been plenty for anyone needing to catch up. Pretty much everyone was already gearing up for next July's v4 implementation since 2013. Here is an article about the ACC influence in blocking v4 in Ohio:
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/business/2014/11/09/lobbyists-pr...
Sad that USGBC is giving into this politic vs. plowing ahead as we all did 15 years ago. LEED or no LEED, we will continue to move along with HPDs (and ZNE, and health, and resiliency...)

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Marcus Sheffer LEED Fellow 7group
Nov 10 2014
LEEDuser Expert
69130 Thumbs Up

International Projects

Project Location: United States

I was wondering how much of the decision to delay was due to international uptake. A significant portion of LEED projects are from outside the US and I think these projects represent the biggest growth area for LEED in general. Market transformation is certainly subjective and the same action in one market may be very transformative but in another represents the status quo. If this is the reason for the delay why not extend international projects but stick to the original deadline for US projects.

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E H Sustainability Architect Nov 10 2014 Guest 4201 Thumbs Up

I second this point!

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Barry Giles Founder & CEO, LEED Fellow, BREEAM Fellow, BuildingWise LLC Nov 10 2014 LEEDuser Expert 9016 Thumbs Up

Marcus, Strange that you should mention that. If you were at Delos roll out at GreenBuild, Dave Pogue (CBRE) gave a presentation where he was very convincing that USGBC has reach saturation in most metro areas....this would tie well with you comment that the main growth is outside the USA.....but how would that fit in with ACC?...perhaps ACC already knows that selling chemicals in USA is a lost cause but that outside the USA it's a growth field....a lot like the tobacco industry.

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Gary Thomas Director, Global Energy & Sustainability, CBRE Nov 10 2014 LEEDuser Member 139 Thumbs Up

Please let's slow down the green building saturation discussion as it is entirely not the case. The saturation argument is based on the premise that LEED certified buildings and ENERGY STAR labeled buildings are the same from a sustainability standpoint, which we all know is not reality. ENERGY STAR labeled buildings have no requirements for sustainable water, waste, purchasing, indoor environmental quality, pest control, cleaning (interior and exterior), landscaping, among many other items, thus it is misleading to consider LEED certified and ENERGY STAR labeled buildings as being synonymous.
Additionally, it should not be any surprise to the USGBC that international projects are registering at a higher pace than US projects because for most of the participating countries outside of the US LEED is still relatively new to them and they are several years (at least) behind the US when it comes to sustainable development and building operations.
As a culture we like to believe we can quickly conquer anything so that we can move on to the next newest opportunity, which is troubling in the world of sustainable construction and operations because in reality we have barely scratched the surface of opportunities in the US.

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Marcus Sheffer LEED Fellow, 7group Nov 10 2014 LEEDuser Expert 69130 Thumbs Up

I might suggest that some of the international market, particularly parts of Europe, are ahead of the US in sustainable development. As i said transforming markets is relative to the level of the local market practice. Agreed that most countries are relatively new to this and there is much to do here and elsewhere. The question is how can USGBC/LEED best transform those markets. I certainly view market transformation as an ongoing proposition, not something even close to being conquered in the foreseeable future.

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Hernando Miranda Owner, Soltierra LLC Nov 11 2014 Guest 13748 Thumbs Up

I was told by a marketing person at the USGBC that international markets where the growth market. That was about one year ago. That has obviously changed. I can state for a fact, in California the drop in LEED projects is incredible. It is a dog-eat-dog consulting world. In my opinion, the market is not coming back. Many owners are expecting LEED to be a free-added service. Free LEED only works financially for the design team for projects with very high A&E fees.

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Christopher Schaffner Principal & Founder, The Green Engineer, Inc. Nov 12 2014 LEEDuser Expert 9153 Thumbs Up

FYI - On the USGBC website today, in a post titled "Our top things to know about Greenbuild 2014 and beyond"

"LEED 2009 extension: Stemming from many conversations with our international friends, USGBC is allowing LEED users to continue registering projects under the LEED 2009 rating system until October 2016."

Seems to confirm the international theory.

I'll tell you one thing - Massachusetts is ready to raise the bar. What will cause a drop in LEED projects here is a failure to maintain a meaningful difference between LEED and standard practice.

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Andrew Carman Sustainability Consultant, Sebesta May 14 2015 Guest 131 Thumbs Up

Thanks for this perspective--it was easy to assume that USGBC was being influenced by the chemical manufacturers. It's nice to add the international perspective to keep in mind that the markets in many countries need to be drawn along at an appropriate pace. V4 takes into account the increase in code standards here in the US, while code elsewhere hasn't yet had as much of the upward the influence of LEED that the US market has had over the past bunch of years.

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Tom Kennedy Enhanse
Nov 10 2014
LEEDuser Member
298 Thumbs Up

Delaying V4 - how about "swaps"?

Delaying V4 requirement will mean minimal uptake of V4 in the market for 2 years. Unfortunate, because V4 has some great additions.
This will sound "idealistic", but wouldn't it be great if GBCIThe Green Building Certification Institute (GBCI) manages Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) building certification and professional accreditation processes. It was established in 2008 with support from the U.S. Green Building Council (USGBC). would allow folks to use V3, but "swap" V4 credits in? Not as innovation credits (too few), but as straight out alternatives to certain credits now in V3......examples
-water submeteringSubmetering is used to determine the proportion of energy use within a building attributable to specific end uses or subsystems (e.g., the heating subsystem of an HVAC system).
-building envelope Cx1. Commissioning (Cx) is the process of verifying and documenting that a building and all of its systems and assemblies are planned, designed, installed, tested, operated, and maintained to meet the owner's project requirements. 2. The process of checking the performance of a building against the owner's goals during design, construction, and occupancy. At a minimum, mechanical and electrical equipment are tested, although much more extensive testing may also be included.
-demand responseA change in electricity use by demand-side resources from their normal consumption patterns in response to changes in the price of electricity or to incentive payments designed to induce lower electricity use at times of high wholesale market prices or when system reliability is jeopardized. program participation
- monitoring-based CxCommissioning: the process of verifying and documenting that a building and all of its systems and assemblies are planned, designed, installed, tested, operated, and maintained to meet the owner's project requirements.
- product EPDs
Example, a team registered in V3 doesn't have a shot at WEc1 ("water efficient landscaping"), maybe they have no landscaping or gardens, they get to swap this one for V4's water sub-metering credit.
Dream on.....

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Barry Giles Founder & CEO, LEED Fellow, BREEAM Fellow, BuildingWise LLC Nov 10 2014 LEEDuser Expert 9016 Thumbs Up

Tom, I agree with you that there are several credits that are easier in V4 than V3 and GBCIThe Green Building Certification Institute (GBCI) manages Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) building certification and professional accreditation processes. It was established in 2008 with support from the U.S. Green Building Council (USGBC). have in the past allowed V4 credits to be 'taken' under the alternative compliance path (ACP). However this usually means that teams take the easiest course and some credits, notably the energy credits (as Chris Schaffner notes) which we should be moving forward with are left out...after all who's going to pick the Energy Star requirement in V4 at E* 75, when you can take the easier route with V3 at 69?

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Michelle Reott LEED AP® BD+C, ID+C, O+M, Managing Principal, Earthly Ideas LLC, a LEED® Proven Provider™ Nov 10 2014 LEEDuser Expert 13017 Thumbs Up

Tom - Your dream was granted for some LEED v4 credits to be used in LEED 2009 back in January 2014. See http://www.usgbc.org/articles/use-v4-credits-your-v2009-project for additional information.

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Tom Kennedy Enhanse Nov 13 2014 LEEDuser Member 298 Thumbs Up

Michelle,
This is a good resource (thanks for sharing it), however, that list is not quite "dreamy" to me because it does not include some of the V4 credits that are truly new (like the ones I list). I wish they would append that list and add these.

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Anne Porter
Nov 10 2014
Guest
20 Thumbs Up

Pleased to hear of the extension.

Project Location: United States

Unfortunately, I have been unable to "convince" a facility manager that LEED EB was worth the cost. Providing the extension, USGBC gave me one more chance to work with the manager eventhough it is still a tough sell. I appreciated the extension for this reason. Thank you USGBC.

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Christopher Schaffner Principal & Founder The Green Engineer, Inc.
Nov 10 2014
LEEDuser Expert
9153 Thumbs Up

Not surprising but unfortunate.

This appears to be a decision made at the executive level, rather than a consensus decision.

I couldn't help but note the IPCC report issued the day after the USGBC press release. Are we losing focus on climate issues because the market is not ready for EPDs, etc?

USGBC should immediately ballot an update to the energy standard used by v3. There is no reason to keep letting new LEED projects use an energy standard that will be three iterations old when v3 is finally phased out.

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Dylan Connelly Mechanical Engineer, Integral Group Nov 10 2014 LEEDuser Expert 9618 Thumbs Up

YES! This shouldn't wait. LEED keeps getting more and more behind on the energy standard.

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Taryn Holowka VP, Marketing & Communications, LEED AP U.S. Green Building Council
Nov 03 2014
Guest
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USGBC is listening

Thank you all for your comments. USGBC is indeed listening!

I know many comments have mentioned the poll at Greenbuild. While the survey was one factor in the decision, the overwhelming factor is that fewer than 400 projects have registered for LEED v4 despite it being in the market for more than 12 months. In the first 12 months of LEED 2009 being in the market, nearly 5,000 projects had registered. The message that USGBC has received is loud and clear – the market needs additional time.

Extending LEED 2009’s availability for an additional 15 months enables USGBC to work with the broader industry within a longer time frame to drive meaningful and comprehensive change. This move helps ensure that LEED remains the most used green building standard up until that time so that we can continue to drive the most impactful change possible. The additional time also helps international LEED users keep pace with us – which is critical. By the time we fully transition to v4 we will have an even more committed and robust international audience

Many of the comments have also suggested that v4 is on a delay – LEED v4 is not on a delay – it is open and available for use.

We see this to be a great opportunity for leaders to become early adopters of v4. Project teams, owners, and supportive manufacturers are continuing to work on LEED v4, and know they will reap the rewards of being first to market, and will provide leadership for others.

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Marcus Sheffer LEED Fellow, 7group Nov 03 2014 LEEDuser Expert 69130 Thumbs Up

Of course there is a major difference - when v2009 was released v2.2 was also not available. If it were there would have been similar results. The comparison is apples and oranges trying to pass as a justification.

The reality is that the vast majority of the market will not significantly start using v4 until it is required. Delaying this requirement will not change this fact. It is human nature to fear the unknown and delay change as long as possible. Up until it is required there will not be a significant market uptake of v4. If v4 is not required its use is being delayed, no matter how you try to spin it.

When there are two versions of LEED available, the market will take the status quo 99 times out of 100. Continuing to reward the status quo is a good strategy for maintaining/increasing market share but at the expense of market transformation. LEED is becoming SQEED (Status Quo in Energy and Environmental Design) IMO.

Leading the market in a direction (transformation) is very different than working with the market to make sure they are ready. I fail to see how the delay of v4 will drive any meaningful and comprehensive change in transforming the market. Keep in mind that this will delay v4 a full four years beyond its original launch date! Requiring v4 will drive change, continuing to delay will not.

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Barry Giles Founder & CEO, LEED Fellow, BREEAM Fellow, BuildingWise LLC Nov 03 2014 LEEDuser Expert 9016 Thumbs Up

Marcus, very well written.
My added concern is that after all this time with V4 NOT selling in the marketplace that upper management at USGBC is taking a scorched earth policy to try to turn the problem around.

'Working with the market' involves better marketing, better workshops and educational pieces and more involvement of the core volunteers, not stonewalling and opaque communications.

Fully support what you are saying Marcus.

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Glen Phillips Director of Sustainable Education, GreenCE, Inc. Nov 03 2014 LEEDuser Expert 1482 Thumbs Up

Well stated Marcus.

I'm going to continue to push projects to stand by the June 15th 2015 date, as while USGBC appears free to change dates based on nontransparent polling and inapplicable historical comparisons, we are just as free to recognize only v4 projects registered after June 15th 2015 as actual leaders.

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Gary Thomas Director, Global Energy & Sustainability, CBRE Nov 03 2014 LEEDuser Member 139 Thumbs Up

Unfortunately, the USGBC's lack of confidence in its own product and unwillingness to challenge and push the industry severely diminishes our ability to move clients to v4 and further, with this announcement the USGBC can expect v4 registrations to evaporate.

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E H Sustainability Architect Nov 10 2014 Guest 4201 Thumbs Up

My concern is that many agencies and companies are pursuing LEED Silver v2009 as a base standard of design. Which is great! Thanks, LEED. Now that it has become standard of practice, LEED Silver is very easy to achieve in a most cases and is no longer an indicator of innovation and sustainable design. By delaying LEED v2009 cutoff, LEED is just maintaining the status quo and deminishing the value of their rating system and their role in the market place of pushing forward sustainable design practices. Of course the industry will whine when LEED v4 becomes mandatory. But, until LEED v4 is forced upon us, the industry will not push ahead on its own. There will be just as many people complaining about LEED v4 in 2016 as there would have been in 2015. But, by 2016, people will also be compaining that LEED v4 is already out of date.

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Bill Swanson PE, LEED AP, Integrated Architecture Nov 19 2014 LEEDuser Expert 23489 Thumbs Up

Any chance of answering some of the outstanding questions addressed here?

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Bill Swanson PE, LEED AP Integrated Architecture
Oct 31 2014
LEEDuser Expert
23489 Thumbs Up

USGBC response

Can we get a response from USGBC on this? I'm sure they are listening intently to this discussion.

1) How large was this survey? What percentage for each response? Why is this more important than the 86% approval of v4 when it was ratified in an open process per USGBC procedures? If 50% of new LEED registrations are international, how many of these users were included in this survey?

2) What other factors were involved in this decision? Anything relating to the American Chemistry Council? Is USGBC ready for v4? Is LEED Online ready?

3) What happen to the 3 year cycle for updating LEED? Why was discussion of v5 penalized during GreenBuild?

4) Why is an MR credits revision mentioned when delaying v4? When the minimum credit requirement for energy (2 point min.) was revised years ago it never delayed a whole system. It was changed, voted on separately by the USGBC members, and adopted. Should a change to the MR credits delay v4?

5) Where is the openness and transparency? This change appears to go against the Foundations of LEED. Delaying 18 months is a substantial change by prolonging weaker energy and material standards. "Updates cannot be integrated into LEED content unless approved through the LEED balloting procedures. ... Modifications to existing credit or prerequisite language as part of deliberate, next version improvements that change stringency or technical rigor"

I see this a bit like the US Treasury trying to convince people to switch from paper dollars to coin dollars. Why is this even an issue? Just stop printing the paper dollars and people will be ready to use the dollar coins.

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Barry Giles Founder & CEO, LEED Fellow, BREEAM Fellow, BuildingWise LLC Oct 31 2014 LEEDuser Expert 9016 Thumbs Up

Excellent post Bill....and the answers are?

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Gary Thomas Director, Global Energy & Sustainability, CBRE Oct 31 2014 LEEDuser Member 139 Thumbs Up

Bill: I wholeheartedly agree that an extension of this magnitude clearly should have been given more deliberate and careful consideration than the seemingly reactionary response to a dubious poll. Of course openness and transparency have been missing from the USGBC for quite some time now. Case in point the secretive development, confusing and misleading marketing, and attempted implementation of the LEED Dynamic Plaque

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Lawrence Lile Chief Engineer Lile Engineering LLC
Oct 30 2014
LEEDuser Member
3154 Thumbs Up

On the other hand ...

I'll certainly not be shedding a tear to be losing the cumbersome LEED V3 LEEDONLINE website, with it's slow-loading, Internet-Explorer-only, buggy SAP interface. That's probably the feature of LEED V4 I am most excited about, not having to wait for that spinning ball every time I click on anything on LEEDONLINE. The only thing that was good about V3 LEEDONLINE was that it was better than V2.2 LEEDONLINE.

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Lawrence Lile Chief Engineer Lile Engineering LLC
Oct 30 2014
LEEDuser Member
3154 Thumbs Up

LEED V4 delay is a good idea

I have thought all along that LEED V4 changed too many requirements at once. I also suspect that numbers of LEED registered projects will drop dramatically once LEED V4 is required. I've done my homework - I'm ready for LEED V4, but an industry that still sends me "LEEDS" [sic] letters documenting recycled percentage in their carpet using the wrong terminology, can't figure out what a 500 mile radius looks like, and balks when I tell them smoking is banned on a construction site certainly isn't ready for a "more stringent" LEED. My opinion is that LEED V4 is an ivory-tower, impractical standard that will dramatically reduce LEED certifications. Yes, there are a few improvements that streamline or simplify requirements, but overall I believe it was a mistake to change so much so fast.

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Marcus Sheffer LEED Fellow, 7group Nov 03 2014 LEEDuser Expert 69130 Thumbs Up

That ship sailed. v4 was significantly watered down during the 6 public review phases in the name of too much too fast. v4 was originally going to be launched in late 2012 (called LEED 2012 then). It was delayed so the supporting materials could be developed. Next delay was to give the market time to get used to v4.

Not sure where the ivory-tower part comes from but other than the materials credits it really did not change very much. It is a bit more stringent but I am not sure what is impractical.

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Gary Thomas Director, Global Energy & Sustainability CBRE
Oct 29 2014
LEEDuser Member
139 Thumbs Up

LEED v4 Registration Delay a Mistake

Considering the track record of the USGBC’s extended sunset dates, aborted launch dates, and lack of connection with the industry it is intended to serve, it is not surprising that the date was moved. Disturbing, yes, surprising, no. What this means of course is that in 2022 we will still be certifying buildings using v2009. During Greenbuild 2014 I attended a roundtable with various CBRE clients representing major property owners in the US and internationally to discuss LEED v4. While we all have issues with elements of v4, the consensus was that it is not as daunting or costly to implement as initially thought, and in some cases our clients have already adopted LEED v4 as their new sustainability standard. If the USGBC waits until the majority of the “industry” is ready, it will never be implemented. Market transformation, at one time the stated goal of the USGC, does not occur by waiting for everyone to be ready.

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Marcus Sheffer LEED Fellow, 7group Oct 30 2014 LEEDuser Expert 69130 Thumbs Up

Hear, hear!

If you took the same poll ahead of the launch if every prior version of LEED, I am sure there would have been similar results. Basing a decision like this on a poll is frankly ridiculous. If this is the basis for decision-making then, I agree Gary, it will never happen.

It certainly appear that the mission is not the USGBC's top priority. If everyone is ready then what are we transforming?

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Barry Giles Founder & CEO, LEED Fellow, BREEAM Fellow, BuildingWise LLC Oct 30 2014 LEEDuser Expert 9016 Thumbs Up

Gary, is this the end of version 4 as we know it? Theoretically any new version, say version 5, would need to be created and run with only version 4 running...that means that a version 5 wouldn't see the light of day till January 2017!
In reality this capitulation to an unknown sector of 'users' (although the artical above says that the market needs more time...so how can they be 'users'' if they're not using it?) is really a dumming down of LEED new construction
Now tie that to the Dynamic Plaque dumming down LEED EB and we have a series of missteps that the membership never agreed to or where consulted on.
The USGBC have allowed the 'nattering nabobs of negativity' to sideline a Great Leap Forward with version 4 and eviserate an existing program in LEED EB.....for what reason? If we "wait for the market" it will NEVER happen.

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Barry Giles Founder & CEO, LEED Fellow, BREEAM Fellow, BuildingWise LLC Oct 30 2014 LEEDuser Expert 9016 Thumbs Up

Marcus. So if the mission of the USGBC is being kicked into touch, what then will replace it? Based on current lack of transparency it will be replaced with nothing that the membership have any involvement with. As to a poll, well as any pollster will tell you, the results entirely depend on what question you ask, how you ask those questions and to whom you actually interview.

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Marcus Sheffer LEED Fellow, 7group Oct 30 2014 LEEDuser Expert 69130 Thumbs Up

What USGBC said about the poll results does not even pass the laugh test. So 61% were not ready or unsure. Well what percentage were unsure. If there were three choices - ready, not ready, unsure - why were the unsure lumped with the not ready. For an organization that prides itself on creating LEED based on science this appears to be a decision based on other issues justified by a very unscientific poll. While I have significant issues with the use of any poll to make this decision, at least make it sound at least remotely scientific. Hopefully the press release writer made it sound worse than it actually was.

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Glen Phillips Director of Sustainable Education, GreenCE, Inc. Oct 31 2014 LEEDuser Expert 1482 Thumbs Up

I had the same head scratching moment about the poll results. Was the poll conducted to justify the move that was all but predetermined, or in the couple days following Greenbuild did the USGBC board sit down with credible results (I would hope they had more to go on that the cherry picked 61% figure) and reach this conclusion?

I would also be curious how poll respondents were selected (to not be complete junk it would have to be representative of the broader USGBC membership). I was at Greenbuild this year and was not offered any such opportunity to chime in on this.

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Marcus Sheffer LEED Fellow, 7group Oct 31 2014 LEEDuser Expert 69130 Thumbs Up

Didn't ask me either.

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Gary Thomas Director, Global Energy & Sustainability, CBRE Oct 31 2014 LEEDuser Member 139 Thumbs Up

Nor I, or anyone I talked to or heard from during or after Greenbuild. Glen likely has the answer above, a poll created to justify a move that was predetermined

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Glen Phillips Director of Sustainable Education, GreenCE, Inc. Oct 31 2014 LEEDuser Expert 1482 Thumbs Up

Two other observations:

Of the 3 possible responses to the survey, it seems like "we are ready" was selected more than 1/3 of the time, and was perhaps the most common response. It is odd that this wasn't the primary take-away. If the responses were split evenly between "no" and "I don't know", it could have been reframed: "Only 30% of the market not ready for LEED v4!"

And now, with my tinfoil hat firmly in place, the press release was initially authored by Jay Mehta, and is now attributed to USGBC's Director of Public Relations.

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Barry Giles Founder & CEO, LEED Fellow, BREEAM Fellow, BuildingWise LLC Oct 31 2014 LEEDuser Expert 9016 Thumbs Up

Nor me.....but then again that doesn't really surprise me. Why ask questions of people who you know are going to answer that 'they're ready' when you 'need' the answer to be a negative.

With my tin foil hat on...many thanks Glen...and as a business man running a for profit business, this whole thing, plus the LDP sure smacks of 'panic mode' to me

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Christopher Davis Program Manager, Global Energy & Sustainability, CBRE Oct 31 2014 Guest 228 Thumbs Up

I don't have any great perspective on motivations for this, but I have it on good authority that this decision is having a significant demoralizing effect on USGBC and GBCIThe Green Building Certification Institute (GBCI) manages Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) building certification and professional accreditation processes. It was established in 2008 with support from the U.S. Green Building Council (USGBC). staff, particularly on those who worked diligently for three years to produce v4. The vast majority of the folks who work at USGBC, who were equally shocked by the decision, are incredible individuals motivated by the core organizational mission, but unfortunately this seems to be a calculated business decision made behind closed doors. I'm reminded, perhaps ironically, of the statement that was scrawled on the whiteboard in Brendan Owens' office: "We are not a company."

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Barry Giles Founder & CEO, LEED Fellow, BREEAM Fellow, BuildingWise LLC Nov 01 2014 LEEDuser Expert 9016 Thumbs Up

Christopher, I'm heart broken that the staff should have been put under this sort of pressure. Many of us on these forums have been working with 'the greatest team on earth' since the beginning and are now fighting as best we can to get these stupid decisions that have recently be enacted by, what seems to be , a small cadre of senior USGBC and GBCIThe Green Building Certification Institute (GBCI) manages Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) building certification and professional accreditation processes. It was established in 2008 with support from the U.S. Green Building Council (USGBC). individuals, reversed.
At any opportunity that you get, as a personal message or linked through from this forum, please remind all the great staff that we fully support them and that we will not rest until full transparency has been restored to the USGBC.

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Glen Phillips Director of Sustainable Education, GreenCE, Inc. Nov 03 2014 LEEDuser Expert 1482 Thumbs Up

Thank you for your insightful contribution on this Christopher, it is heartening to learn that the good people behind LEED v4 are as frustrated at this development as we are.

I wonder if we will hear from USGBC staff on this, or if all related correspondence will be filtered through their PR team. I can only guess that staff has been asked to remain silent on this issue, as I have heard nothing other than dry factual announcements. LEED was literally founded on the diversity of opinions, and to silence internal critics (if true) would be truly counter to the broader mission.

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Timothy Murray Sustainable Design Leader WHR Architects
Oct 29 2014
LEEDuser Member
38 Thumbs Up

What happened to Leadership?

The “L” stands for leadership. Every LEED version has been painful and caused market outcry, yet the market adapted and great progress was made. Keep in mind that LEEDv4’s original working title was LEED 2012. I saw at Greenbuild solid evidence that manufacturers had earnestly responded to LEEDv4 criteria and competent MEP engineers offered compliant energy solutions using existing technologies. The early adopters are making the transition, but the mass market will not adopt LEEDv4 until it is mandatory. It must be pushed. USGBC used to claim that the codes were the floor and LEED was the ceiling. This delay may reverse that as two years from now, so many codes will have taken exponential leaps forward. Worst of all is the lost momentum toward 2030 goals. With only fifteen years to go, a two year delay is a substantial stumble. Thank goodness for code bodies that realize the seriousness of our mission.

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Marcus Sheffer LEED Fellow, 7group Oct 30 2014 LEEDuser Expert 69130 Thumbs Up

In certain respects v4 is already obsolete relative to other standards. By the time v4 is required it will be two full version changes behind ASHRAE 90-1 (2013 and 2016).

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Brian Salazar President, LEED AP, WELL AP, Entegra Development & Investment, LLC Oct 30 2014 LEEDuser Member 1234 Thumbs Up

Interesting observation Marcus. I hate to keep harping on this, but building owners will ask "why?" when it comes to LEED more and more frequently if it continues to lag behind code changes.

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Marcus Sheffer LEED Fellow, 7group Oct 30 2014 LEEDuser Expert 69130 Thumbs Up

And the smart ones asking those questions have a very legitimate point. If any version of LEED that is available for the market to use becomes substantially equal to conventional practice, then LEED ceases to have any relevancy at all. Any project today can attain LEED Silver easily without any cost implications, if the team knows what it is doing. Over 50% of LEED projects attain Gold level certification. The market has virtually caught up to LEED v2009 IMO.

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Brian Salazar President, LEED AP, WELL AP, Entegra Development & Investment, LLC Oct 30 2014 LEEDuser Member 1234 Thumbs Up

Marcus - Exactly. I was just with a developer outside DC, building 12 new buildings. Exactly 2 of which are being certified. When I asked why not the other 10, or why not LEED ND, he said they already build to Silver with no cost implications. Local code requirements are more stringent and building users understand that. The two "marquee" buildings that are getting the LEED treatment are doing so based on tenant demand within the building, but not necessarily justified by a real business case, or real sustainability metrics. It's a "marketing issue" to use his words. All this, right in the USGBC's back yard. They need to open their eyes, stop dwelling on process and deadlines, and develop a system that is fluid and moves with the market. As LEED has grown, the USGBC has also gotten fat and slow. They need to consider a significant change in direction in order to stay relevant, this deadline shift notwithstanding.

There's an important adage in business, "follow the money." Words to live by in this case.

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Jerry Yudelson Oct 30 2014 Guest 142 Thumbs Up

I think maybe some people are missing the point. The developer's comments ARE the market. S/he wants the brand value of LEED, but does not concede that LEED provides any enduring value beyond immediate lease up. The tool has gotten so complex and costly that most people who "sign the front of the check" don't see value commensurate with cost. The better step would be to start with the market and develop the tools around the demands of leading edge market participants (e.g., developers, owners, facility managers), not "onlookers" like architects and engineers who get paid no matter how the building does economically.

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Brian Salazar President, LEED AP, WELL AP, Entegra Development & Investment, LLC Oct 30 2014 LEEDuser Member 1234 Thumbs Up

Jerry - Although I see your point, every day in fact. The truth is, we can't rely on the development community to implement change. If stripping the earth of natural resources, ad nauseum, makes a better proforma, they will do it (or at least consider it). The design community needs to influence change, promote change, and advocate for change. THAT part of the USGBC formula is correct, in my opinion. What's wrong is that the focus of LEED has gone from implementing change, to implementing a new score card. Instead of looking at how to affect long-term, sustainable (as in financially feasible and justifiable), and socially responsive changes to the fundamental way the market functions.

The next step for green building should not be in determining whether a project accrues 20 or 21 EPDs, but whether the project will have a lasting POSITIVE impact on society (environment included).

The "currency" we are using to evaluate the success of a project is all wrong. It's still a function of traditional financial metrics, NOI, ROI, simple payback, instead of the much more complex and much more important measure of "total return" - The three Ps, manifest in financial terms. USGBC has an opportunity to use their position, influence and research to develop these metrics. But the window is closing.

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Brian Salazar President, LEED AP, WELL AP, Entegra Development & Investment, LLC Oct 30 2014 LEEDuser Member 1234 Thumbs Up

One more thing...Not to belabor the point... (too late for that?!)

An example of where LEED fails: An underutilized land parcel in an urban setting that is repurposed as a community garden can't be LEED certified because it a) doesn't contain a permanent structure and b) doesn't have at least one regular occupant.

In my opinion, a project like that should AUTOMATICALLY get a LEED certification. The costs are minimal, but the positive impacts to the community and the environment are immense.

Contrast that example with City Place in Las Vegas which achieved LEED Gold, in a city with no water. There's a big disconnect between what's right and what's LEED.

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David Gibney Technical Director for Sustainable Design M+W Group
Oct 29 2014
Guest
388 Thumbs Up

Why so long?

The extension period is too long. It's TWO year from now. Why does the industry need so much time? LEED V4 already took several years, with several public reviews, to develop. It's been online for a full year. It's not new, really. And, it's not dramatically different than V3, in terms of LEED "mechanics". Its changes are primarily moving/bundling/renaming credits and increased stringency.

That said, its emphasis on Transparency & Disclosure in the MR credits is a significant improvement. And a challenge. To accelerate the adoption of LEED V4, I believe the USGBC should focus on the construction materials manufacturing and supply chains. I see these industries struggling with providing compliant, documented products. And many are hesitating... Do you recall about a dozen years ago when contractors would jack-up their bids to supply FSCIndependent, third-party verification that forest products are produced and sold based on a set of criteria for forest management and chain-of-custody controls developed by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), an international nonprofit organization. FSC criteria for certifying forests around the world address forest management, legal issues, indigenous rights, labor rights, multiple benefits, and environmental impacts. wood? This wasn't because the material cost that much more. It was an availability issue. The USGBC could significantly gain market acceptance by helping manufacturers understand the MR credits, especially what they need to do to provide compliant products. Does anyone know whether the USGBC has any such programs or initiatives in place to help these industries? I feel this, more than a time extension, would accelerate LEED V4 acceptance.

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Barry Giles Founder & CEO, LEED Fellow, BREEAM Fellow, BuildingWise LLC Nov 03 2014 LEEDuser Expert 9016 Thumbs Up

David

The crux of your post is really 'education'....or should I say...lack of it. The rot set in some years ago when chapters started to drift away from 'USGBC education' based on a multitude of reasons the primary one being the money division with USGBC.
Instead of wasting millions of dollars on an LDP that eviscerates LEED EB, USGBC should have provided more eduction into the marketplace that would have benefited the broader LEED rating systems and raised all the versions upward.
Too late now. There's no unwinding the proclamation.

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Glen Phillips Director of Sustainable Education, GreenCE, Inc. Nov 03 2014 LEEDuser Expert 1482 Thumbs Up

I hope I'm not alone in not knowing what you mean by "LDP". It sounds important.

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Barry Giles Founder & CEO, LEED Fellow, BREEAM Fellow, BuildingWise LLC Nov 03 2014 LEEDuser Expert 9016 Thumbs Up

Glen.

LDP = LEED Dynamic Plaque....

See in the LEED User forums

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Glen Phillips Director of Sustainable Education, GreenCE, Inc. Nov 03 2014 LEEDuser Expert 1482 Thumbs Up

Thank you Barry! I've seen the one at USGBC headquarters and the LDP is a beautiful device, although it seems odd to stand behind the launch of this tool in the press release.

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Barry Giles Founder & CEO, LEED Fellow, BREEAM Fellow, BuildingWise LLC Nov 03 2014 LEEDuser Expert 9016 Thumbs Up

In England we call them a 'folly'

.....a costly ornament with no practical purpose, especially a tower or mock-Gothic ruin built in a large garden or park....

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Suzanne Johnson Design Manager Hensel Phelps
Oct 29 2014
Guest
73 Thumbs Up

Press Release Location

Project Location: United States

I have not been able to find the referenced press release to share with clients. Please let us know where to find it.
Thank you.

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Nadav Malin USGBC LEED Faculty, President, BuildingGreen, Inc. Oct 29 2014 LEEDuser Moderator

I don't know why the press release isn't posted on usgbc.org yet. In the meantime, you can view it here

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Michelle Reott LEED AP® BD+C, ID+C, O+M, Managing Principal, Earthly Ideas LLC, a LEED® Proven Provider™ Oct 31 2014 LEEDuser Expert 13017 Thumbs Up

Here is the direct link - http://www.usgbc.org/articles/usgbc-announces-extension-leed-2009. I found it odd that this was not posted on USGBC's LEED channel or on its home page. I can’t believe that they had bigger news than this for the home page. I had to find it via the Internet as my search terms did not reveal it on USGBC’s site.

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Martha Norbeck President C-Wise Design and Consulting LLC
Oct 29 2014
LEEDuser Member
476 Thumbs Up

Extension problematic

I appreciate the response to concerns about LEED v4, but this puts me in an awkward position. One of the reasons I haven't taken the time to learn about LEED v4 is because I know that in my market, no one will take on LEED v4 until they have to. I was planning to dig into the details sometime next spring. What do I teach those folks who want to take the LEED AP exam - here, study both, but be tested on v4 that won't be relevant for 2 years? The purpose of LEED upgrades is to transform the marketplace. Clients tell me that v3 is worn and tired. We need new challenges. At the very least, LEED v3 should have a transitional upgrade to ASHRAE 90.1-2010. A 3 month extension okay, but 15 is too much.

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Steven Burke Sustainability Manager, SMMA Oct 29 2014 LEEDuser Member 104 Thumbs Up

I agree that 18 months is too much time. 12 months would have been more appropriate and should have been plenty of additional time to accomplish the goal of letting everyone adjust. As you mention, the credentialing aspect of this is definitely problematic; it will be interesting to see if they make any adjustments in that regard.

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Nadav Malin USGBC LEED Faculty, President, BuildingGreen, Inc. Oct 29 2014 LEEDuser Moderator

I think that you're right on the money about the Energy standard being the issue, Martha. I've started hearing, even from folks in Europe, that v4 is not only better than v3, it's actually easier to work with. I think that the main reason folks haven't been opting into v4 is that they know they'll get fewer energy points. 

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R. Ted Krasnesky Manager of Sustainable Construction, Pepper Construction Company Oct 29 2014 Guest 155 Thumbs Up

I agree with your concerns and I'm particularly concerned that the USGBC is looking at overhauling the construction credits. We've already invested in changing our documentation process. It's true that early adopters will have difficultly acheiving these credits. But it's the right "next step". Maybe reduce some of the requirements (ie 10 instead of 20 EPDs) for the early adopters, but don't overhaul.

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Marcus Sheffer LEED Fellow, 7group Oct 30 2014 LEEDuser Expert 69130 Thumbs Up

I agree that many are scared off by the 19% stringency increase in 90.1-2010. As with many of the new issues in LEED the reaction seems to be based farFloor-area ratio is the density of nonresidential land use, exclusive of parking, measured as the total nonresidential building floor area divided by the total buildable land area available for nonresidential structures. For example, on a site with 10,000 square feet (930 square meters) of buildable land area, an FAR of 1.0 would be 10,000 square feet (930 square meters) of building floor area. On the same site, an FAR of 1.5 would be 15,000 square feet (1395 square meters), an FAR of 2.0 would be 20,000 square feet (1860 square meters), and an FAR of 0.5 would be 5,000 square feet (465 square meters). more on a fear of the unknown than anything else. Relative stringency is determined as an average so there are project types for which the stringency only increased a few percent - multifamily and high process load facilities - and others who increased more that the average, on average. There are many other variables which enter into the equations as well, especially the selection of your proposed HVAC system. In general some systems just score better than others. Also keep in mind that the threshold were also reduced (smaller percent savings required to earn the same number of points). Off the top of my head - if you take advantage of the right HVAC system, I would put the difference between 90.1-2007 and 90.1-2010 at less than 10% for most projects. This means a loss of 2 - 3 points.

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Glen Phillips Director of Sustainable Education, GreenCE, Inc. Oct 31 2014 LEEDuser Expert 1482 Thumbs Up

Regarding the credentialing side of this, I was assured by USGBC yesterday that this will not set back the exams. I do realize the final call likely resides with GBCIThe Green Building Certification Institute (GBCI) manages Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) building certification and professional accreditation processes. It was established in 2008 with support from the U.S. Green Building Council (USGBC)., but as they are so closely aligned, this is enough for me to rely on. While it is an interesting question, it would be absolutely counter to trying to prepare the market for v4 to take a step back on the credentialing side.

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Barry Giles Founder & CEO, LEED Fellow, BREEAM Fellow, BuildingWise LLC Oct 31 2014 LEEDuser Expert 9016 Thumbs Up

Glen, but if the market is not ready to use V4 then they are not ready for the exam....right now total chaos is beginning to reign at head office if it doesn't already!
Perhaps the USGBC should just drop v4 and the exam in the round file in the corner, cut their losses and upgrade the v3 exam.

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Michelle Reott LEED AP® BD+C, ID+C, O+M, Managing Principal, Earthly Ideas LLC, a LEED® Proven Provider™ Oct 31 2014 LEEDuser Expert 13017 Thumbs Up

I hope USGBC is listening and will consider making fixes and upgrades to LEED 2009. It's sat on the backburner with all the push and effort for LEED v4 and if it will be in use for another 8 years, it needs attention.

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Glen Phillips Director of Sustainable Education, GreenCE, Inc. Oct 31 2014 LEEDuser Expert 1482 Thumbs Up

Barry,

I suspect that USGBC views LEED v4 education and the credentialing exam as a key way to make sure that even as we backslide 16.5 months on market adoption, that we continue to make progress in terms of readiness for v4.

Full disclosure, we just finished our 2nd v4 exam prep course, so I'm sure I see this issue with at least a little personal bias.

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Steven Burke Sustainability Manager SMMA
Oct 29 2014
LEEDuser Member
104 Thumbs Up

LEED v4 Extension

I think you are going to find most constituents to be very pleased to hear this news. The market wasn't ready, design teams weren't ready, spec writers and manufacturers weren't ready, and owners were definitely not ready to fork over the added soft costs for LEED project administrators to research new credit requirements and ascend the learning curve.

My main concern with the previous timeline for v4 was that commercial building owners would look at it and decide there was no way they were going to ever pursue it. I think if this delay ultimately leads to greater v4 market adoption then it is the right move.

Let's not forget that progressive owners can still pursue v4 if they wish. In Massachusetts the state school building authority mandated LEED v4 on all new projects moving forward, so there will be a few of us getting our hands dirty and advancing v4 in the interim.

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Brian Salazar President, LEED AP, WELL AP, Entegra Development & Investment, LLC Oct 29 2014 LEEDuser Member 1234 Thumbs Up

Steven - Thanks for your note about MA schools adopting v4. I was unaware of this. Is the SBA requiring this of all schools in order to receive funding, or is this only to receive the additional 2% budget allowance for the green schools designation? Also, are they still recognizing CHPS as a preferred alternative to LEED?

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Steven Burke Sustainability Manager, SMMA Oct 29 2014 LEEDuser Member 104 Thumbs Up

Hi Brian,

The requirement for all schools is to achieve LEED certified at a minimum; previously this was under v3, and as of July 2014 it is now under v4. The additional 2% reimbursement package is for achieving Silver. CHPS is still an alternative, though it is becoming less of a consideration in MA. Perhaps the requirements of LEED v4 will change that.

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Brian Salazar President, LEED AP, WELL AP, Entegra Development & Investment, LLC Oct 29 2014 LEEDuser Member 1234 Thumbs Up

Steven - Thanks for your reply. Please tell Martine and Steve Vincent I said hello!

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Christopher Schaffner Principal & Founder, The Green Engineer, Inc. Nov 10 2014 LEEDuser Expert 9153 Thumbs Up

Two things:
1) MA-CHPS is no longer an alternative. It disappeared when the new MA energy code (IECCInternational Energy Conservation Code 2012) was adopted
2) Due to the USGBC's lack of confidence in V4, I hear rumors that the MSBA is considering relaxing the requirement to use V4.

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Martine Dion Director of Sustainable Design, SMMA Nov 10 2014 LEEDuser Member 38 Thumbs Up

Chris,
I surely hope these rumors won't become reality and the politics won't get the MSBA regulations to go backwards. That is how I see the USGBC's move, making everyone go backwards - I am extremely disappointed once more. I totally agree with your comment about being 3 codes behind once we get to October 2016. Between ZNE becoming quite integrated in many projects and some interest with LBC, this could be quite damaging to the LEED brand in general. Let's work to keep v4 in MA Schools!!!

Brian, Hi!

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Perrilyn Fanfulik PE, LEED AP BD+C WMATA
Oct 29 2014
LEEDuser Member
265 Thumbs Up

Changing from LEEDv4 to LEED 2009

Project Location: United States

I registered a project under LEEDv4 (#100038645) because my anticipated completion was past the LEEDv4 sunset date. Now that the registration deadline for LEED 2009 has been extended to 10/31/16, I assume the corresponding sunset date has been extended to 10/31/22 or thereabouts. The project and associated documentation should be complete prior to the LEED 2009 revised sunset date. I would like to change my project registration from LEEDv4 to LEED 2009. Any word as to whether this will be possible?

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Tiombe Parrish Sustainable Design Coordinator, Jacobs GBNA Oct 29 2014 LEEDuser Member 158 Thumbs Up

Hi Perrilyn!
I also registered a project in v4 anticipating that the sunset date would occur before we begin design. Given this extension and the fact that it is a design build project, we will likely be into construction documentation before the new 2016 sunset date. I am hoping that the process for reverting to v2009 is painless.
Tristan, any insight on this?

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Tristan Roberts LEED AP BD+C, Executive Editor – LEEDuser, BuildingGreen, Inc. Oct 29 2014 LEEDuser Moderator

Tiombe and Perrilyn, I don't have any definite information but based on what I have seen from LEED customer service over the last couple years I think they will be sensitive to this, and allow you to change your registration to v2009. I would contact GBCIThe Green Building Certification Institute (GBCI) manages Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) building certification and professional accreditation processes. It was established in 2008 with support from the U.S. Green Building Council (USGBC). through their website and request this, if that's what you want.

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Perrilyn Fanfulik PE, LEED AP BD+C, WMATA Oct 30 2014 LEEDuser Member 265 Thumbs Up

Thank you Tristan for the reply. I have the same question into USGBC and I will post their response.

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Barry Giles Founder & CEO, LEED Fellow, BREEAM Fellow, BuildingWise LLC Oct 30 2014 LEEDuser Expert 9016 Thumbs Up

Are we seriously suggesting that we are going to allow registrations to back slide?

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Tristan Roberts LEED AP BD+C, Executive Editor – LEEDuser, BuildingGreen, Inc. Oct 30 2014 LEEDuser Moderator

Barry, I would see it as backsliding if registrations for LEED 2009 had closed and were being reopened.

What has come up here are cases where registration for both systems was open, a choice was made, and now USGBC has changed the program. If USGBC and membership wants to prevent folks like this switching from v4 to v2009, it should be done on the merits (such as those that have been mentioned here), and not happenstance.

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Barry Giles Founder & CEO, LEED Fellow, BREEAM Fellow, BuildingWise LLC Nov 04 2014 LEEDuser Expert 9016 Thumbs Up

Tristan, I don't totally disagree...it's more the 'unintended consequences' that come up. Primarily this is a timing issue with our larger clients who we have been working with us on re-certification. Having set re-certification calenders on 4.5 million square feet, funded those calenders based on the dropping of V3 and now to find all that is reversed leaves us in difficult positions.
On one hand the delay MAY help the client....on the other will there be further changes or a reversal of the v4 to v3 slippage next week when the board meet to review the input?
The lack of clear leadership is disconcerting.

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Brian Salazar President, LEED AP, WELL AP, Entegra Development & Investment, LLC Nov 04 2014 LEEDuser Member 1234 Thumbs Up

Hi Berry, v4 is still available. Question is, why would you want to?

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Barry Giles Founder & CEO, LEED Fellow, BREEAM Fellow, BuildingWise LLC Nov 04 2014 LEEDuser Expert 9016 Thumbs Up

Brian...After X number of years working with TAGs and volunteers and staff to get the darn thing out into the marketplace I'm dammed if I going to let a very small cadre p**s all over it!

We committed to signing up as many clients as we could in Version 4 and we succeeded with not just the first but the first and the second Version 4 Platinums'....trouble is and what really upsets the whole apple cart is that both of them were LEED EB...the very rating system that USGBC is sidelining with dynamic plaque.

There are NO PROBLEMS running version 4 in EB...none. In several cases the credits are actually easier...and yes I know the Energy Star went to 75.

So, 'why would I want to?...because it's a leadership position and if USGBC management don't want to lead well nuts to them 'cause I do!

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Perrilyn Fanfulik PE, LEED AP BD+C, WMATA Nov 07 2014 LEEDuser Member 265 Thumbs Up

Response from USGBC regarding moving from LEEDv4 to LEED 2009 is as follows:

Project data cannot be moved between platforms; however, the project can be re-registered in LEED 2009.

1. Back-up all documentation presently uploaded within the project. Please note that any documentation uploaded to LEED Online and any information in the forms will be lost as part of this process.

2. Re-register the project in LEED 2009.

3. E-mail copy of invoice.

4. A refund of registration fees already paid for the existing project will be processed.

5. USGBC will deactivate the old project.

Please note that you must contact USGBC directly to facilitate this process as there is a reference number/subject line associated with the project for tracking purposes.

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Jerry Yudelson
Oct 29 2014
Guest
142 Thumbs Up

LEED v4 Extension

USGBC raised the bar, but then lowered it again? The bottom line is that LEED v4 is an unworkable standard for most building owners and facility managers, significantly raising costs for LEED certification without adding any additional benefits. Don't you think we can expect to see another extension in 2016 or a significant modification to the standard?

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Bill Swanson PE, LEED AP, Integrated Architecture Oct 29 2014 LEEDuser Expert 23489 Thumbs Up

Market transformation succumbs to market share. Maybe if they push it back farFloor-area ratio is the density of nonresidential land use, exclusive of parking, measured as the total nonresidential building floor area divided by the total buildable land area available for nonresidential structures. For example, on a site with 10,000 square feet (930 square meters) of buildable land area, an FAR of 1.0 would be 10,000 square feet (930 square meters) of building floor area. On the same site, an FAR of 1.5 would be 15,000 square feet (1395 square meters), an FAR of 2.0 would be 20,000 square feet (1860 square meters), and an FAR of 0.5 would be 5,000 square feet (465 square meters). enough we'll get V5 out. But then v4 was suppose to solve all of the v2009 issues and that has worked so well.

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E Johnson Oct 29 2014 LEEDuser Member 5952 Thumbs Up

Friendly competitor or nemesis? Stay classy.

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Lida Lewis Director of Sustainability, OTJ Architects Oct 29 2014 Guest 508 Thumbs Up

Jerry Yudelson, the commenter above, is the President of Green Building Initiative (GBI), the administrator of the Green Globes system.

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Barry Giles Founder & CEO, LEED Fellow, BREEAM Fellow, BuildingWise LLC Oct 29 2014 LEEDuser Expert 9016 Thumbs Up

As farFloor-area ratio is the density of nonresidential land use, exclusive of parking, measured as the total nonresidential building floor area divided by the total buildable land area available for nonresidential structures. For example, on a site with 10,000 square feet (930 square meters) of buildable land area, an FAR of 1.0 would be 10,000 square feet (930 square meters) of building floor area. On the same site, an FAR of 1.5 would be 15,000 square feet (1395 square meters), an FAR of 2.0 would be 20,000 square feet (1860 square meters), and an FAR of 0.5 would be 5,000 square feet (465 square meters). as LEED EB is concerned there are NO difficulties with version 4. Of course there are a few credits that still require tweaking but on the whole the USGBC have done a great job with EB in version 4

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Tristan Roberts LEED AP BD+C, Executive Editor – LEEDuser, BuildingGreen, Inc. Oct 29 2014 LEEDuser Moderator

Great to hear, Barry. You are speaking from direct knowledge, having led the team certifying the first EBOM v4 Platinum project.

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Hernando Miranda Owner, Soltierra LLC Nov 11 2014 Guest 13748 Thumbs Up

I agree with Jerry. He was one of the people who understood that incremental change (v2.0, 2.1, 2.2,...) was the way to keep a standard moving upwards, and not overwhelming the market.

Going from LEED 2009 to LEED v4 in one massive change was a mistake. LEED v2 and v2009 did not change as much from prior versions as v4 changed v2009.

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Ross Spiegel Principal Ross G. Spiegel Architect
Oct 29 2014
Guest
243 Thumbs Up

Extension of LEED 2009 Registration Period

Given the changes embodied in LEED v4 and the feedback from users I think that USGBC made a very wise decision. This will give users more time to assimilate the changes and prepare for the changeover while continuing to use LEED 2009. For those firms either already using LEED v4 or just starting to use LEED v4 this change will allow them to continue on that path. It will also give both USGBC and users more time to educate clients about LEED v4.

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Brian Salazar President, LEED AP, WELL AP, Entegra Development & Investment, LLC Oct 29 2014 LEEDuser Member 1234 Thumbs Up

Ross - I agree with you. The delay is a good thing. Many many people in the A/E/C and ownership roles are still struggling with understanding the nuances of v3!

I wonder if v3 and v4 could live side by side for a while longer. For example, a project listed under v3 after the cut of date could be limited to only achieving Certified or Silver status, while v4 projects could start at Silver and be allowed to pursue Platinum. It puts a hierarchy in the rating systems themselves, but still allows laggards to continue with the processes and systems they have spent years (and many dollars) refining to suit v3. I have spoken to many CRE leaders and LEED v4 is simply not on their radar. Not even a little bit.

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Marcus Sheffer LEED Fellow, 7group Oct 30 2014 LEEDuser Expert 69130 Thumbs Up

It will only ever show up on their radar when it is required. The delay won't change that.

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Barry Giles Founder & CEO, LEED Fellow, BREEAM Fellow, BuildingWise LLC Oct 30 2014 LEEDuser Expert 9016 Thumbs Up

Marcus.....exactly right!

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Kath Williams LEED Fellow 2011, Principal, Kath Williams + Associates Nov 09 2014 LEEDuser Member 2334 Thumbs Up

What would it take to change the name, LEED 2009, to what it really is LEEDv3 (LEED 2009 PLUS addenda)? If officially the name changed to LEEDv3, it would reflect that the standard is comprehensive of updates and had return to be a leadership document rather than appearing to be a 2008-developed document in use in 2016!

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Marcus Sheffer LEED Fellow, 7group Nov 10 2014 LEEDuser Expert 69130 Thumbs Up

While we are at it perhaps we could change the names of the levels of certification. Never liked the precious metals thing. This might help differentiate v3/2009 from v4 as well.

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Gary Shlifer Green Building Professional LEED AP BD+C, O+M, Homes - Chief Sustainability Professional, Green Building Florida Nov 10 2014 Guest 272 Thumbs Up

The Extension: Great news, a very good thing! The market simply isn't ready or in many cases, able to hit the rigor of LEED v4. For example, A Sarasota, FL Sustainability-Architecture firm brought me in to help push along the LEED EBOMEBOM is an acronym for Existing Buildings: Operations & Maintenance, one of the LEED 2009 rating systems. v4 process with their client, The University of South Florida. Almost immediately the team and I discovered that USF couldn't achieve v4 prereques, so we backed into v3.
Rating System Titles-Branding: I've always understood LEED 2009 as the evolution of 1. Rating Systems 2. LEED Accreditations 3. LEED Online. I always refer to the rating systems as v3 first and then as Marcus does v3/2009, but try to drive home the v3 indicator. There's no question there's confusion. I personally refer to rating systems commonly by number. i.e., LEED NC v3, LEED CI v3, LEED NC v2.2, LEED NC v4, LEED for Schools v2.0/v3 etc.
On another topic..
To me, one of the biggest issues we face with LEED adoption is the terrible design of LEED Online.

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Glen Phillips Director of Sustainable Education, GreenCE, Inc. Nov 10 2014 LEEDuser Expert 1482 Thumbs Up

I'm not sure what we would call the top 3 cert levels for projects using v3 after the cut-off, perhaps naming them after conflict resources (oil, fur, etc.), or after notorious building materials (asbestos, vinyl, etc.) but for the 40-point threshold:
- Certified becomes Pacified

Obviously this is in jest, as while sufficiently capable project teams have no excuse for using v2009 after June 15th 2015, I don't want to make light of the efforts of project teams who aren't able to use it for legitimate reasons (whatever those might be).

On a serious note, I would hesitate to throw too much energy behind a broad update to v2009 (although I like the idea of republishing it with addenda under the banner v3, and maybe also removing the Platinum tier), as if program development resources are put behind this, I'm afraid that our now-extended closing date would be more likely to slip indefinitely.

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Marcus Sheffer LEED Fellow, 7group Nov 10 2014 LEEDuser Expert 69130 Thumbs Up

one globe, two globe, - one star, two star - oopps already taken

Elements - Fire, Earth, Water, Wind

Trees - Pine, Maple, Oak, Redwood

Water - pond, creek, river, ocean

Soil - minerals, bacteria, fungi, humus

Should be something to do with life. Which is what we are really trying to sustain.

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Barry Giles Founder & CEO, LEED Fellow, BREEAM Fellow, BuildingWise LLC Nov 10 2014 LEEDuser Expert 9016 Thumbs Up

Try to simplify...
One amoeba, two amoeba..

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Christopher Davis Program Manager, Global Energy & Sustainability, CBRE Nov 10 2014 Guest 228 Thumbs Up

EBOMEBOM is an acronym for Existing Buildings: Operations & Maintenance, one of the LEED 2009 rating systems. projects using the Pilot ACP: EAp2 Energy Jumpstart (buildings with low ENERGY STAR scores improving by 20%) are limited to the Certified level. Perhaps a compromise would be limiting any LEED 2009 registered after June 2015 to the Certified level?

Granted, if the sunset date stays the same, this isn't really allowing buildings to use LEED 2009 longer; it just changes when the huge registration spike happens, which happens the day before every rating system closes.

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Marcus Sheffer LEED Fellow, 7group Nov 10 2014 LEEDuser Expert 69130 Thumbs Up

Might drive some folks to v4, I like it Christopher!

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Janika McFeely Associate, Sustainability Specialist, EHDD Architecture Nov 10 2014 Guest 1034 Thumbs Up

I'm very disappointed with the extension. On most of our projects, if the project goal is Platinum, the only way to get there reasonably at this point is under V3. However, we've been able to advocate for pursuing V4 anyways because of the sunset date and the leadership position that some of our clients are in. This is a great thing! Not all projects should be able to reach Platinum and I was excited for a new challenge after so many years of the same old strategies and conversations. Now there's no motivation for most of our clients to do V4 at all. Extending the sunset date will keep most projects and firms in V3 until they absolutely have to change. This will keep the market from getting up to speed and make V4 irrelevant even before it gets launched.

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Tanya Mejia Sustainability Specialist, LEED AP BD+C, Perkins Eastman Nov 17 2014 LEEDuser Member 40 Thumbs Up

Agreed with Janika and other posters above - I'm also disappointed with the extension, and with the lack of transparency and consensus involved in the decision. At this point, v2009 is fairly standard in many of our markets, but there is no motivation for our clients to pursue v4 unless there is an immediate sunset date for v2009. I'm faced with answering questions across our firm regarding the discrepancy between v4 accreditation requirements and open registration for v2009. Educating clients (and even designers) on v4 becomes much more difficult when they realize that they are not required to pursue v4 for some time. The point of LEED has been to push the market forward, and I'm afraid the delay is only causing fragmentation at this time.

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