CI 2009 WEc1: Water Use Reduction

The 'Water Use Reduction Additonal Guidence' updated November 1, 2011, v4 provides a calculation example. They used 1.6 for the full flush and 1.1 for the low flush which provided a weighted average 1.35gpm.

Yes

John, good question, but I don't have any idea. The answer probably lies with the WE TAGLEED Technical Advisory Group (TAG): Subcommittees that consist of industry experts who assist in developing credit interpretations and technical improvements to the LEED system., years ago. Anyone know?

We had a similar issue ; we entered in data into all the required fields; the prerequisite template said we were a "N", however the WEc1 credit said we acieved all 11 points, with one point reserved for innovation(!) ....How is that possible?
......We clicked the 'Feedback' tool, and left a message; what happened is that sometimes the credit submittal templates don't work correctly. They basically reset the forms; then the Prereq said "Y". ........
I would do the same if I were you. Good luck!

Kathy, we are having the same problem! Did you ever figure out how to get your points to change from 6 to 11? Our calculations are showing that we have well over a 40% reduction, but yet the credit is only showing that we earned 6 points! What do we do?

Lynne,

Assuming you're using the most up-to-dat version of the form, you need to make sure that under Credit Information you have selected the number of points you're attempting. If that doesn't help I would give GBCI a call and they will look at it while on the phone with you.

Sajeev, if you wish to take credit for these toilets under WEc1, you need to include them here.

The Reference Guide for LEED NC/CS/Schools has a table in the appendix for LEED core & Shell projects, which can help determine the number of guests.

Julian, I don't know for sure since this is very uncommon, but I expected seawater would be allowed for this credit.

The response to a CIRCredit Interpretation Ruling. Used by design team members experiencing difficulties in the application of a LEED prerequisite or credit to a project. Typically, difficulties arise when specific issues are not directly addressed by LEED information/guide issued recently for a project in Hong Kong suggested it was possible for sea water flushing to contribute to the water use credit. This is logical as it is non-potable waterPotable water meets or exceeds EPA's drinking water quality standards and is approved for human consumption by the state or local authorities having jurisdiction; it may be supplied from wells or municipal water systems..
However, in a recent submission for a CI project the project team asked whether seawater from a municipal seawater supply system can be used to claim credit for WEp1 and WEc1. The response: No, per LEED Interpretation 1551, municipally provided greywater (in this case seawater) cannot be used to meet credit requirements.
ID 1551 is dated 2006: Municipally reclaimed water is not applicable to WEc3 achievement (NC Version 2.0). This credit focuses on fixture efficiency and on-site water reuse.
There seems to be a mismatch between the response to the CIR and ID1551, else the CIR response would have been 'negative'!
The logic is that if I choose a building near public transport it is energy efficient, so I get points. Surely, if I choose a building using seawater flushing, which is potable water efficiency, I should get an advantage too?

Only toilets and lavatories that are dedicated for the use of one person are considered private. Large open offices and toilets dedicated for the use by one company are public because more than one person will use the fixture.

Thank You Susan.

Garrison, sorry for the slow response here, but I think your question should be clarified by the Water Use Reduction additional guidance doc from USGBC.

Sandra, I've been thinking this over and I don't think it's likely you could get this exception. LEED 2009 does have a higher standard, and projects are expected to go through extra efforts to meet it.

You could try asking GBCI about this, and if you do, please let us know how it goes, but I don't see that this would work.

Susan, have you looked at earning points under SSc1? I think this is the correct approach here.

Yes, but I don't think it applies to us. In 'Implementation' for Path 10, it says this credit is only for projects that are less than 50% of the total square footage. We're over 75% of the building.

The real question is: If the base building implements a rainwater harvesting system and reduces the building's municipally supplied water use, can we use it in our reduction calculation as well or are we limited to simply calculating flow rates of fixtures our occupants will be using?

Susan, given that rainwater is listed as a potential technology for achieving this credit in the credit language and that you are over 75% of the building, I think this should work.

Patricia, this doesn't show all the uploads, but check out the sample forms download you can get in the Documentation Toolkit above.

The answer to your question is that you do need cut sheets for fixtures and fittings.

Tristan,

Thanks for the help. I did click on the Doc toolkit and I don't see any documents. It might be because I have a free membership.

In any case, yes, I know that I definitely need cutsheets for new fixtures and fittings but my question was .... how about for the old fixtures and fittings. That's what I was unsure about.

Thanks again and I hope you have a wonderful day!
Patricia

Yes, sorry if that wasn't clear. The content in the Doc Toolkit is downloadable by members. I'd recommend trying a monthly membership—you can quit anytime.

Leslie, in most cases LEED-CI credits are designed to be more specify and not overlapping with NC-type requirements. For example, WEp1 only applies to fixtures in the tenant scope. Also, EAp2 requirements are very different for CI. With things like bike storage you do need to make sure you're not double-counting something that another CI project may be counting.

I hope this answers your question. More specfiic questions may come up, and be best addressed, the specific CI credit pages and forums.

For this credit you only take into account the specific fixtures such as lavatory sinks and toilets shown in the credit language (see the credit language tab above).

Kitchen sinks are included in the credit language, so does this mean that all the sinks within a commercial kitchen are included in credit caculations?

Sinks in the commercial kitchen area used to prepare and prep food for others should be considered process waterProcess water is used for industrial processes and building systems such as cooling towers, boilers, and chillers. It can also refer to water used in operational processes, such as dishwashing, clothes washing, and ice making. and not included here. Sinks used by you for preparing and prepping your lunch is domestic water and are included here.

Thanks for the speedy reply Susan.

Sounds like a commercial situation, as I'm assuming everyone on the floor has access to it. Doesn't seem very much like a hotel room, no?

I meant more by the private setting and fixtures involved. Thanks for the clarification.

Correct, you only need to include fixtures within the tenant scope of work, plus showers if they are being relied upon under SSc3.

Tristan, where can I find this requirement regarding shower, again? Is it from your project experience or can you direct me some reference or literature I can go by? It makes sense for total water usage point of view, but what frustrates me is that I can’t find reference/literature to go for. Are we supposed to read between lines and keep guessing about credit requirements or depend upon other project experience? Thanks,

Seonhee, I'm sorry, but I can't recall where I've seen this documented. I have heard it directly from GBCI for projects, though, so I would trust it. In general, I think you can trust what you find in the Reference Guides and addenda, however, there are some small things like this to look out for. That's one thing this forum is good for.

Seonhee: were you ever able to locate the documentation? I'm looking for a historical lis of all the revisions/addendas affecting this credit. Thanks.

Metered faucets can be used on a project pursuing this credit, but the LEED baseline for faucets is so stringent it will be tough to contribute much to the credit threshold in this way. Using toilets, urinals, and showers to earn the credit will be more important, as well as possible water reuse.

See additional guideline information from USGBC - It seems the baseline .25 gal per cycle can apparently be reduced in design case to 0.1 if you use .5 gpm @ 12 second cycle (the average cycle time for autocontrol faucets). This was adequate on my project to reduce beyond the 40% reduction, thereby eliminating the need for a $90,000 rainwater harvesting system to achieve 11 points.

http://www.usgbc.org/ShowFile.aspx?DocumentID=6493