Michelle, the one Interpretation we reference above does say "in the building," but I think that's misleading in reference to your question because it's answering a different question. I wouldn't take it too literally in reference to a question of whether collection can be outside the building.

Basically, per the first FAQ above, LEED would like to see some collection points within the building, but the location of the dedicated space is somewhat flexible as long as it is a workable solution for the project.

With reference to the earlier thread that Lisa Fabula commented on, I thought her advice was good, and do you have any review comments or GBCI feedback that has brought this question up again?

I think in your situation I would prefer to be able to include some specifics in my LEED Online documentation—acknowledging that you don't know who the tenant will be, but demonstrating that you've thought through how to approach these requirements, no matter what kind of tenant(s) you get. A narrative with some drawings showing what the solution would be for a single distribution tenant vs. four diverse tenants, for example.

Given the important of prereqs and the uncertainties you're feeling here, I wouldn't hestitate to contact GBCI directly and ask what they are expecting in the situation.

Hi Tristan,
Thanks for the quick response. It's easy to say don't take it too literally, but in your post and Lisa's, you are both indicating that you do think some kind of effort needs to be put into showing some differentiated space inside an open unbuilt out warehouse which would be dedicated to recyclable collection. And substantiating the size of that space with some kind of information relative to "potential" tenants and "potential" configurations.

Since there are no actual requirements to meet in terms of sizing even if you do know who the tenant is, on what basis would anyone evaluate the information I provide?

My question is about meeting the prerequisite but also about time and money spent on metrics for metrics sake. Yes, I could create possible scenarios and indicate possible solutions purely for the sake of LEED compliance. But this would simply be an excercise. Like most things in C&S, we do not have control over this aspect of the building's use unless we put it in the lease agreement. Yet the lease agreement approach is precluded for this measure.

I guess it's pretty hard to put something in the lease that doesn't have any specific requirement to meet. And I'm back to square one. I will take it up with GBCI reviewers and post the outcome. Thanks for the perspective and the patience.

The lack of specificity of the MPp1 requirements is a double-edged sword. Let us know how it goes.

Hi Tristan,
I got a response from reviewers on this issue.

"In the case of a cold, dark warehouse we do not have any requirements as to how this must be physically accommodated inside of the building. We do require that recycling be addressed in tenant guidelines and that if they design/construct an exterior recycling or trash storage area that it be large enough to accommodate reasonable expected needs for recycling purposes.

They cannot build an area for trash only without accommodating recycling.
I agree that there is no benefit in creating possible interior plans. If they are not designing/building the exterior trash/recycling enclosure they are likely to have identified a couple of possible locations for it (as it simply must be
accommodated somewhere convenient on site), so it seems likely that they could call out possible locations for the enclosure and speak to the fact that it is large enough to accommodate both trash and recycling."

So despite the language on the form and a mandatory requirement for a floor plan, it is still the outside enclosure that is the focus of this credit.

There are some good resources from state studies - like...

http://www.calrecycle.ca.gov/ReduceWaste/Business/FactSheets/Property.htm

...but no known formulas.
Consider checking with recycling vendors in your area who may be able to provide weights from experience.

Additional waste reduction strategies that may help reduce the overall size/weight of anticipated collection are addressed here...
http://www.calrecycle.ca.gov/ReduceWaste/Business/

Curt,

I haven't heard of any other strategy, other than including the required storage area, working here. Consider that it is a dedicated "Area" not necessarily a separately built room. I have seen this type of storage built in under a counter or in the same room as bicycle storage, for example.

Could this be as simple as designating an open "area" on the open floor plan as recycling storage? We have no interior rooms or walls in the Core & Shell scope - would the reviewer accept this sort of submittal? We plan to include the requirement in the Lease Agreement anyways, because future tenants may choose to move the dedicated area.

Hi,

We have the same question! Curt, have you had any response?

We submitted using the Lease Agreement despite the credit template's directions not to. I will respond when we get comments (a few more weeks away).

Hi Curt, sorry to bother you, have you had any response yet?

We just received comments, and no, the Lease Agreement is not allowed. However, the reviewer suggested we set aside exterior space (a truck dock, in our case) for our recycling storage area. This way a room would not have to be constructed, and in reality, tenants would bring their recyclables to a dumpster anyways. The layout will involve a trash and recycling dumpster side by side.

Great news Curt, thank you for your quick reply!

Sara, there is no specific requirement for interior plans that indicate the location of decentralized collection of recyclables. The intent of the credit is for the facility managers to have a plan for implementing recycling while making it easy for tenants to participate to the maximum level possible. Indicating the location of the centralized collection area on the exterior plan and provided a narrative description of the types of recycling addressed with a local hauler is adequate. See the Recycling Area Narrative sample under Documentation Toolkit for guidance.

Hi Sara and Lisa,
This is my question, too. And actually there is an explicit requirement on the credit form for the interior issues. "A floor plan highlighting recycling storage areas is required to document prerequisite compliance." This statement is entirely separate from the required narrative.

We have always interpreted this credit as being about the outside trash/recycling enclosure for the building. Yet the operational issues of collection amounts and frequency has crept into NC and CS, not just CI.

How are you responding to these parts? Are you just talking about the exterior enclosure in the narrative and adding some generalities about possible tenants to address volume and frequency? What are you uploading for the floor plan required?

An upload will be required and it needs to have a call-out for recyclables collection location. I think you are getting hung up on the "interior" and "floor plan" concepts which may be not appropriate for C&S. Though the standard language says "A floor plan highlighting recycling storage areas is required to document prerequisite compliance.", to me, this does not require the collection area to be interior. A site plan with exterior collection identified has worked in my experience.
As to providing the narrative with "generalities about possible tenants" volume, this element has become heavily reviewed. I think each project has to definitively describe and defend how they arrived at their volumes, to determine space areas, as each project is unique due to activities and local services.

Hi Lisa,
Thanks for the response. I do tend to be literal but I agree that the volume issues are being heavily reviewed on all our varied projects. And the two elements together are what has led to my confusion about the floor plan vs. the site plan approach.

Our project is a speculative warehouse C&S. No tenants are currently known or contemplated. The space could have 1 or as many as 4 future tenants. I have absolutely no way to describe or defend volumes at all. All I would have done in the past is show the outside trash enclosure and size.

Other than to say that the size of the outside enclosure is based on the overall size of the warehouse and local jurisdication, what else could I possibly say about unknown tenant volumes?

I think you are the expert on your project and can identify the type of tenant you are targeting, their staffing levels anticipated from your experience and planning, and even the tenants typical activities that generate the addressed recyclables. No LEED Reviewer can know better about your project that you, so be confident, and clear, and you should not have to "defend".

I appreciate the optimism, Lisa. Our warehouse projects span quite a range of different potential tenant types from manufacturing to distribution to storage. All with very different profiles.

As you say, we are the experts on our project and what makes sense or doesn't in terms of information to require or provide with respect to an issue like this. I'll be sure and post the results of review comments. Thanks.

Mark, you are on the right track. Please note that the sizing chart is just a guide and your project should can determine what's appropriate by working with your local haulers and other advisors. The intent is to have a plan that provides viable interior collection/storage and easy exterior storage/pick-up. You need to address the 5 specific types of recyclables stated in the credit language, but comingling of recyclables is common. Checkout the Documentation Toolkit section for samples of each element of prerequisite compliance.

BH, there is no specific area requirement for any specific building type in LEED.

David, it's hard to see how a trash compactor would satisfy the prerequsite, which is about providing facilities for recycling. What did you have in mind?

John, I'm not aware that there is a requirement relative to signage. This seems to fall more under implementation of a recycling plan, which is an important practice but not part of the credit requirements.