NC 2009 IEQc7.2: Thermal Comfort—Verification

As far as I understand, for LEED NC there is no requirement for a specific number of people to respond to the survey. This may be different if you are pursuing LEED EBOMEBOM is an acronym for Existing Buildings: Operations & Maintenance, one of the LEED 2009 rating sytems..

Thank you Emily! I'll just go with letting everybody have a chance to answer the survey, getting as many answers as I possibly can. But there seems to be no exact target number of answers required.

There is no minimum percentage requirement for the number of respondents to the survey. It is human nature that people who are displeased are most likely to speak out. The fewer the responses greater the likelihood more than 20% are dissatisfied and corrective action is required!

Hi Maura: I am having the same problem. I was going to contact GBCI about this issue. Did you ever find out what the problem was?

No, but I just went online to check it out and the form had registered the point. Weird. Wait a couple weeks and try it again?

Is the version 4 form (submittal template) available for the credit? How to change to version 4 form if the form is available (for other credits also) as the current form is having version 3?

You can find a spreadsheet listing the most recent form version and the changes made to the form as well as a document describing the data linkages between forms at this link http://www.usgbc.org/DisplayPage.aspx?CMSPageID=1447. You can either request a revised form through the feedback button in LEED online v3 (you must identify which form is required, project name and number, and rating system) or downloaded from the Sample Forms Download link in LEED online and uploaded as a supporting document.

Eric, have you reviewed the sample included in the Documentation Toolkit, above?

I have understood that to mean both temperature and humidity sensors in the space. (Just like in NCv2.1)

I also think this wiggled back into LEED 2009 accidentally during the "alignment" process, and am hopeful that it will be eliminated via addenda.

Yes- the credit is still applicable to your project type. Your survey, however, should just be geared toward the hotel's employees, not the hotel guests who are considered to be "transient" visitors.

Allison, Is your comment on excluding guests from the survey process based on a CIRCredit Interpretation Ruling. Used by design team members experiencing difficulties in the application of a LEED prerequisite or credit to a project. Typically, difficulties arise when specific issues are not directly addressed by LEED information/guide or review comments you've gotten back? It seems like it would be important to include guests if the intent is to get feedback on building performance and thermal comfort.

Steve- the credit language (page 545 of the BD+C reference guide) indicates that "regular occupants" should be surveyed. Hotel guests would be considered "visitors" not "regular occupants". If you were interested in gathering feedback from hotel guests, I'm sure you could make the survey available to the hotel guests, but it is not a requirement of the credit.

What about a Dormitory/Student Housing Project? Does this still count as 'transient' housing? It wouldn't per IBC....but wasn't sure about LEED. Would this make it qualify as 'residential', and thus this credit could not be considered applicable?

I believe that a dorm would count as residential and therefore not qualify for this credit, although I have not worked on a LEED dorm yet.

A dorm would not typically be eligible for EQc7.2.

I just found out that our office has received this credit previously for a similar student housing project.

Jennifer, your office has received this credit in the past, but under what rating version? Isn't the exclusion of residential projects new to 2009? I would argue that a dormitory like a hotel, is a transient occupancy and "guests" have a greater degree of control only over their individual rooms, not the building as a whole or its common spaces. I hear yeas and nays, do I hear any official word? I really don't want to have to waste a CIRCredit Interpretation Ruling. Used by design team members experiencing difficulties in the application of a LEED prerequisite or credit to a project. Typically, difficulties arise when specific issues are not directly addressed by LEED information/guide on this one.

I don't think either a hotel or a dormitory is eligible under the 2009 credit language. Both would be considered residential.

I was part of the TAGLEED Technical Advisory Group (TAG): Subcommittees that consist of industry experts who assist in developing credit interpretations and technical improvements to the LEED system. when 2009 was developed, but I have never understood why residential buildings have been excluded. It seems to me that feedback can be obtained on comfort from any occupied space by means of a survey. My two cents.

I would argue that a hotel should be eligible, because it is not really residential and there is a large number of employees that could respond to a thermal comfort survey. Of course, the final call would be from your GBCi reviewer unless you do a CIRCredit Interpretation Ruling. Used by design team members experiencing difficulties in the application of a LEED prerequisite or credit to a project. Typically, difficulties arise when specific issues are not directly addressed by LEED information/guide...

Clint --- the project we sucessfully received the credit for was submitted under LEED- NC 2.2.

APplying the definition of residential including basically a stove in the dwelling unit would make the most sense in differentiating how this is applied. And dorm residents would certainly be considered regular occupants.

we have achieved this credit on 3 dorms so far, all NCv2.2

Has a residence hall (dorm) project achieved this credit (NC 2009)? If yes, I would like to know how it was approached.

As far as I can tell, a residence hall is considered a "residential" project but the reference guide appears to lack an official definition. Residential spaces (not projects) are defined in the rating system selection guidance (page 12): http://www.usgbc.org/ShowFile.aspx?DocumentID=6667.

I have not seen a 2009 project, however I have seen a few 2.2 projects. It is my understanding that a dorm is not considered a residentail project type.

The last sentence of the definition you reference says: "For buildings such as dormitories and assisted living facilities that have common areas (central kitchens and lounges) it is at the project team’s discretion to define the common areas and the living units as residential."

I'm not sure what you're asking for when you say "describe the approach," as the approach is much the same for a dorm as any other school building.

Emily - If you believe a dorm is not considered a residential project, can you elaborate on why? That is what I mean by "describe the approach" as I understand a dorm to be a residential project.

The definition I cited explains that for a dormitory project, it is at the project team's discretion to define certain spaces in the project as residential. That is not the same as saying it is at the project team's discretion to define an entire dormitory project as residential.

Whether or not a dorm is eligible seems to hinge on the definition of residential, which has been discussed by a few individuals in this conversation. My guess is that one might be able to make the case that a dormitory, although residential in nature, may not provide the "higher level of control" mentioned in the LEED addenda (http://www.usgbc.org/ShowFile.aspx?DocumentID=6392) and thus be eligible to achieve this credit.

We typically just create our own for free using Survey Monkey or something similar.

It's possible to create your own as Allison says, but we also recommend the UC Berkeley Center for the Building Environment survey that you found. It's discussed in more detail in the Bird's Eye View tab, and the Checklists tab, above.

I strongly recommend against asking the owner to spend more money on the Berkeley survey. Searching online offers good examples of survey formats and subject, and also how to ask the questions. As your owner's LEED consultant you are most valuable to them if you prepare a survey for them to edit and use.

Just to recap (from above), there is a strong value for LEED consultants to use the Berkeley survey; the biggest reason is comparison to a larger building stock (including many other LEED certified buildings). Full disclosure, I used to work for the Berkeley folks who run the survey. So I'm biased, but so are many who run POE surveys a lot- you learn so much more if you have a benchmark to compare to. Also, the Berkeley survey is editable. And you're making a contribution to ongoing academic research and education on green buildings. And you could make your project eligible for the Livable Buildings Award, if your scores are high enough. I could go on. Making and running your own survey is definitely better than not, but I just wanted to give the perspective on why many teams decide to pay (a relatively small amount!) for a more thorough and insightful POE experience.

I have to agree with Lindsay above (Full disclosure - my company is a CBE practice partner, so I am biased as well) - although it is very simple to come up with a survey that meets the LEED requirement, the value of the CBE survey is what you do with the data - they offer a level of evaluation and statistical analysis that many clients (and LEED consultants or design professionals) are not experienced with performing.

Gita, I am going out on a limb to some extent here, but I would be surprised if the answer was "no," since this project has a significant amount of commercial space, and the comfort of those occupants IS important!

Gita, did you get a definitive answer to your question about a a mixed-use project and IEQc7.2?

I am also looking for comments on the eligibility of achieving this credit in a mixed-use project for v3. Has anyone submitted for this credit on a v3 project?

In LEED 2009, New Construction Residential and Core & Shell projects are not eligible for this credit (see page 543 of the LEED Reference Guide for Green Building Design and Construction, 2009 Edition (Updated June 2010)). Unless the majority of the building is non-residential and occupied by the Owner, it seems this credit is not an option for mixed-use projects.

Rebecca, based on the lack of response to your question it seems like a lot of people share the same confusion. If you haven't already, I would recommend checking out our guidance in the BIrd's Eye View overview shown above.

Rebecca,
One take on this would be that permanent monitoring systems could be as simple as programmable thermostats or other monitoring and control devises that measure in real time more than one of the ASHRAE-55 variables, so, temperature and air speed, temperature and humidity, etc. However, Tristan is right, the GBCI has yet to provide explicit direction on this.

Has there been any more guidance on the issue of permanent monitoring systems? This is an area where things get very expensive by over-specifying systems.

The permanent monitoring requirement was removed from NC2.2, but made it back into 2009 when the rating systems were "aligned", as it had always been a requirement in LEED-CI.

Basically they want you to monitor the components of comfort, as described above. We have taken this to mean both temperature and humidity. Now that said, we have successfully gained this point using system level humidity sensors, rather than room level. So, I think you need:
1) Room level temperature sensors (thermostats)
2) System level humidity (sensors at the AHU1.Air-handling units (AHUs) are mechanical indirect heating, ventilating, or air-conditioning systems in which the air is treated or handled by equipment located outside the rooms served, usually at a central location, and conveyed to and from the rooms by a fan and a system of distributing ducts. (NEEB, 1997 edition) 2.A type of heating and/or cooling distribution equipment that channels warm or cool air to different parts of a building. This process of channeling the conditioned air often involves drawing air over heating or cooling coils and forcing it from a central location through ducts or air-handling units. Air-handling units are hidden in the walls or ceilings, where they use steam or hot water to heat, or chilled water to cool the air inside the ductwork., or on the return air)
3) a BAS system that allows one to collect and trend this info.

Although I have never tried it, it's my sense that a program of regular comfort surveys (every 6 months or so), instead of sensors, would also meet the intent of the credit for permanent ongoing monitoring of comfort.

Actually the requirement for permanent monitoring system cannot be fulfilled with a regular survey. The previous CI system had no requirement for this element but 2009 does. For New Construction or CI projects 100% of the occupants (as Ben described above) must be offered the survey - this has been consistently required for several years. I find that using EBOMEBOM is an acronym for Existing Buildings: Operations & Maintenance, one of the LEED 2009 rating sytems. requirements and definitions is very successful in supporting strategies for the other 2009 systems.

Lauren, the LEED EBOMEBOM is an acronym for Existing Buildings: Operations & Maintenance, one of the LEED 2009 rating sytems. rating system has a similar credit (EQc2.1) and provides some more detailed direction about who should be included in the occupant survey. The EBOM v2009 reference guide states on page 393 that "for commercial buildings, regular building occupants are defined as workers who either have a permanent office or workstation or typically spend a minimum of 10 hours per week in the project building." This implies to me that your team should consider including at least some of the longer term patients. The EBOM credit also requires collecting responses from at least 30% of the total regular building occupants so that might be a starting point for a representative sample. However, this credit doesn't have a performance requirement attached and is more about the process. Finally, we have generally not seen a large cost associated with the corrective action component.

Right,
However for NC projects, no minimum sample size is noted and the reference guide (under "Implementation") states that, "Providing a systematic process and mechanism for all occupants to provide feedback about their thermal comfort will help building operators adjust and maintain thermal comfort in their buildings." My understanding has always been that the intent is for all regular building occupants to be included, or to at least to have the opportunity to provide feedback.