No - a "roof" for LEED must have conditioned space below.

thank you Mara! What if you have a pitched roof with 36" overhangs beyond the buiding walls (typical of residential), would you then also only count the area over the conditioned space, and the overhangs would not be counted, is that correct?

You would also exclude that extension. Scroll up to the top of the page and scroll your mouse over the green words "roof areaRoof area is the area of the uppermost surface of the building which covers enclosed Gross Floor Area, as measured when projected onto a flat, horizontal surface (i.e. as seen in Roof Plan view). ‘Roofs’, or portions of roofs, covering unenclosed areas (e.g. roofs over porches and open covered parking structures) are not included in the areas used to evaluate compliance with SSc7.2, though they may be applicable to SSc7.1." - a definition should pop up that explains this.

I'm sorry, I see conflicting explanations of how to determine the area of a pitched roof on this forum page. "Roof areaRoof area is the area of the uppermost surface of the building which covers enclosed Gross Floor Area, as measured when projected onto a flat, horizontal surface (i.e. as seen in Roof Plan view). ‘Roofs’, or portions of roofs, covering unenclosed areas (e.g. roofs over porches and open covered parking structures) are not included in the areas used to evaluate compliance with SSc7.2, though they may be applicable to SSc7.1." says "as measured when prjoected onto a flat horizontal surface (i.e. as seen in Roof Plan view)", but further above it says, "The square footage of a pitched roof (or a dome) should be determined by calculating the surface area of the roofing material itself, not the area as seen from above."

Which one is correct?

I had looked into a posted link by Mara Baum from a prior string (http://eetd.lbl.gov) and per my contacting them I was directed to another link on their website (http://coolroofs.org/product-rating/product-testing) which lists recommended test labs. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of experience pursuing testing for this credit so I will let you know how it turns out.

Thank you,

Hi Patrick, thanks for posting - I've never had to do this but am curious to hear how it goes.

what version form are you using? it works for me in Version 4 of the form. Make sure you're using internet explorer and hit the "page" -> " Compatibility view" button? that fixes things frequently....

Yes, I checked the form version first -- It is 4. I also have compatibility view checked off under the tools menu. Grrrr!

PS That grrr was for LEED Online, not you! Thank you for your help!

right now it is the initial value. I believe they are changing it to the 3 year aged value in LEEDv4.

Thank you!!

Hi Tanja,

Terraces should be included in the calculations if they protrude from the building and serve as a roof surface for conditioned spaces below.

Karin

Generally, ballast won't make the SRI values because of the shading and shadows that result in a pile of rocks. So while each white stone may individually apply, the whole installation would likely fall short. That said, there is a white masonry manufacturer in Quebec that may have SRI information and NREL may have something for you as well.

Heather, the easiest option would be to exclude this roof areaRoof area is the area of the uppermost surface of the building which covers enclosed Gross Floor Area, as measured when projected onto a flat, horizontal surface (i.e. as seen in Roof Plan view). ‘Roofs’, or portions of roofs, covering unenclosed areas (e.g. roofs over porches and open covered parking structures) are not included in the areas used to evaluate compliance with SSc7.2, though they may be applicable to SSc7.1. from your credit calcs. I don't have any data to support this, but my guess based on experience with similar products would be that the SRI is too high to support credit compliance. I would not make any general assumption except to exclude it, if in doubt.

The reason that vegetated roofs are valued so highly in this credit is that the plants' ability to absorb heat and undergo evapotranspiration improves the urban heat islandA densely populated area in which pavement and buildings absorb, store, and release solar energy, making the vicinity warmer than it would be if the pavement and buildings were not present. effect. Rock and gravel, while "natural", are not living and do not perform the same function. The roof overall would need to comply with the weighted vegetated / SRI calculation -- but if you get most of the way there with a green roof, you may need very little cool roof. Keep in mind that you can eliminate area for appurtenances and mechanical equipment from the calculation.

Fabiano, I think the LEEDuser FAQ that you quote answers your question. If not, can you clarify what you're unsure of? Thanks.

@fabiano It's clear than you can exempt the helipad if it is part of the roof. If it is the whole roof you can't count it as exempt and still go after the credit. But it's not totally clear whether a high-SRI helipad would contribute toward earning this credit, I would think it would meet the intent of the credit. Let us know how this goes if you do use a high-SRI helipad.

I think you could elect to include the helipad in the credit if you can find a high-SRI coating for it. I would reference the LEED InterpretationLEED Interpretations are official answers to technical inquiries about implementing LEED on a project. They help people understand how their projects can meet LEED requirements and provide clarity on existing options. LEED Interpretations are to be used by any project certifying under an applicable rating system. All project teams are required to adhere to all LEED Interpretations posted before their registration date. This also applies to other addenda. Adherence to rulings posted after a project registers is optional, but strongly encouraged. LEED Interpretations are published in a searchable database at usgbc.org. in your narrative and explain that despite the Interpretation, you would like to include it.

If you are in the US, then the FAA may have something to say about the helipad....

back to lurking

Dear all,
thank you for all the answers and helps.

I first included the helipad to elect the credit, but when i was looking for colored paints with high SRI (because, helipads with white paint are not secure for the pilots), with the search of what paint use, i bumped with the answer that i transcribed on the first question.

- I read that helipads couldn't enter in the roof areaRoof area is the area of the uppermost surface of the building which covers enclosed Gross Floor Area, as measured when projected onto a flat, horizontal surface (i.e. as seen in Roof Plan view). ‘Roofs’, or portions of roofs, covering unenclosed areas (e.g. roofs over porches and open covered parking structures) are not included in the areas used to evaluate compliance with SSc7.2, though they may be applicable to SSc7.1. because it is an usuable area, and has to be deducted from the total roof surface area.

The helipad of my project cover's all the roof area, this is an "usuable" area?
And can eliminate the gain of this credit?

Fabiano, it is typical to exclude appurtenances from your credit calculations. According to LEED, a helipad is an appurtenance. However, since this covers your whole roof areaRoof area is the area of the uppermost surface of the building which covers enclosed Gross Floor Area, as measured when projected onto a flat, horizontal surface (i.e. as seen in Roof Plan view). ‘Roofs’, or portions of roofs, covering unenclosed areas (e.g. roofs over porches and open covered parking structures) are not included in the areas used to evaluate compliance with SSc7.2, though they may be applicable to SSc7.1. and you are motivated to earn the credit, I think that if you can make the area SRI-compliant, you could earn the credit per my earlier instructions. I doubt that GBCI would force you to exclude it if you go through the effort of making it compliant, assuming that is possible. Only a CIRCredit Interpretation Ruling. Used by design team members experiencing difficulties in the application of a LEED prerequisite or credit to a project. Typically, difficulties arise when specific issues are not directly addressed by LEED information/guide or an official review would tell you for sure, though.

Tristan Roberts, thank you so much.
I'm gonna still motivated to earn this credit.
I wanna know if you know or somebody knows about a blue ink with a high SRI (78) to paint this helipad?

Tank you all!

I believe that both credits are independent and all buildings' roofs must be included in the calculation of SSc7.2. In addition, what I see is that the topmost floor was not counted in SSc7.1. It is located in the 20% of parking spaces that is not underground and non compliant with SSc7.1 requirements, otherwise, the roof would have an SRI of at least 29 according to SSc7.1 Option 2 Requirements.

Simon, from what you describe, it sounds like it is part of the roof and should be included. Is there any reason you can think of to exclude it?

Since we exclude the area from mechanical equipment, i was wondering if we could do the same for a rooftop terrace with tables, chairs and BBQ (except during winter). It would by difficult to evaluate the SRI of these objects. But any way, we finally included the terrace in the calculation. Thank you Tristan!

Simon, I wouldn't include the tables and chairs, etc., in your SRI calcs, but the terrace surface should be included.

I have a similar question the definition of Roof AreaRoof area is the area of the uppermost surface of the building which covers enclosed Gross Floor Area, as measured when projected onto a flat, horizontal surface (i.e. as seen in Roof Plan view). ‘Roofs’, or portions of roofs, covering unenclosed areas (e.g. roofs over porches and open covered parking structures) are not included in the areas used to evaluate compliance with SSc7.2, though they may be applicable to SSc7.1. is as follows with this definition in mind and a roof terrace that is an unenclosed area with a metal roof over it do I include the area of the terrace floor or the metal roof covering or neither?

Roof area - is the area of the uppermost surface of the building which covers enclosed Gross Floor AreaGross floor area (based on ASHRAE definition) is the sum of the floor areas of the spaces within the building, including basements, mezzanine and intermediate‐floored tiers, and penthouses wi th headroom height of 7.5 ft (2.2 meters) or greater. Measurements m ust be taken from the exterior 39 faces of exterior walls OR from the centerline of walls separating buildings, OR (for LEED CI certifying spaces) from the centerline of walls separating spaces. Excludes non‐en closed (or non‐enclosable) roofed‐over areas such as exterior covered walkways, porches, terraces or steps, roof overhangs, and similar features. Excludes air shafts, pipe trenches, and chimneys. Excludes floor area dedicated to the parking and circulation of motor vehicles. ( Note that while excluded features may not be part of the gross floor area, and therefore technically not a part of the LEED project building, they may still be required to be a part of the overall LEED project and subject to MPRs, prerequisites, and credits.), as measured when projected onto a flat, horizontal surface (i.e. as seen in Roof Plan view). ‘Roofs’, or portions of roofs, covering unenclosed areas (e.g. roofs over porches and open covered parking structures) are not included in the areas used to evaluate compliance with SSc7.2, though they may be applicable to SSc7.1.

Tristan - can I suggest a reason to exclude a roof deck, or revise how to think about it?
We have a residential high rise with a rooftop pool, which is surrounded by wood deck. As this surface is being used differently than the intent of a rooftop. Could we consider applying the SSc7.1 SRI requirement of >29 to this surface in lieu of the SSc7.2 requirement of >78? The higher reflectivity would be uncomfortable for the users at the pool.
Just a different way to think about it - your thoughts?

Seems like the science people would want to know the emissivityEmissivity is the ratio of the radiation emitted by a surface to the radiation emitted by a black body at the same temperature. of gold. You may want to start there.

Unfortunately no. Using the weighted average for multiple roofing materials, it is possible to have greater than 100% reflective roofing for this credit (it's a glitch in the form). The reference guide states you can only earn exemplary performanceIn LEED, certain credits have established thresholds beyond basic credit achievement. Meeting these thresholds can earn additional points through Innovation in Design (ID) or Innovation in Operations (IO) points. As a general rule of thumb, ID credits for exemplary performance are awarded for doubling the credit requirements and/or achieving the next incremental percentage threshold. However, this rule varies on a case by case basis, so check the credit requirements. for SSc7.2 with a vegetated roof.

Alicia, you have hit on an interesting issue—that there is huge variation out there in what constitutes a "green roof."

Some modular green roof systems come in flats and can be basically set out and then removed. However, these can be laid out on a continuous plane that covers the roof. When I think of pots, I think of round planters that leave the roof mostly exposed. I don't think this would count, if it's what you mean.

Thank you for your reply, I'd like to suggest that the criteria to distinguish a green roof from a pot is telling if it you can step on it and walk. If so, it would constitute a green roof.

Brooks, I have never heard a single, reliable value for this. So much variation possible based on the specifics of the roof—the plants, the time of year, how much of the area has vegetation vs. where ground is visible.

Have you learned anything since you posted this question?

Brooks, it would be double-dipping. Since the surface you describe covers a conditioned space, I think you should consider it a roof.

Thanks Tristan--makes sense once you explain it! I appreciate it--Brooks

Green Builder, they would be considered in the roof areaRoof area is the area of the uppermost surface of the building which covers enclosed Gross Floor Area, as measured when projected onto a flat, horizontal surface (i.e. as seen in Roof Plan view). ‘Roofs’, or portions of roofs, covering unenclosed areas (e.g. roofs over porches and open covered parking structures) are not included in the areas used to evaluate compliance with SSc7.2, though they may be applicable to SSc7.1., yes.

Based on this reference guide addendum definition, I'd assume that seating can be excluded: "An appurtenanceAn appurtenance is any built-in, nonstructural portion of a roof system, such as skylights, ventilators, mechanical equipment, partitions, and solar energy panels. is any built-in, nonstructural portion of a roof system, such as skylights, ventilators, mechanical equipment, partitions, and solar energy panels." It may be helpful to submit a project-specific CIRCredit Interpretation Ruling. Used by design team members experiencing difficulties in the application of a LEED prerequisite or credit to a project. Typically, difficulties arise when specific issues are not directly addressed by LEED information/guide, as I didn't find any LEED Interpretations addressing this issue.

Thanks Samantha! One follow-up question, do we think I should exclude the entire seating area, or just treat it as though it doesn't exist and include the underlying concrete surface?

You're welcome. LEED InterpretationLEED Interpretations are official answers to technical inquiries about implementing LEED on a project. They help people understand how their projects can meet LEED requirements and provide clarity on existing options. LEED Interpretations are to be used by any project certifying under an applicable rating system. All project teams are required to adhere to all LEED Interpretations posted before their registration date. This also applies to other addenda. Adherence to rulings posted after a project registers is optional, but strongly encouraged. LEED Interpretations are published in a searchable database at usgbc.org. 5676 addresses a similar situation. It states that mechanical equipment covering 30% of the roof can be excluded from the credit calculation, but to reduce heat island effectHeat island effect refers to the absorption of heat by hardscapes, such as dark, nonreflective pavement and buildings, and its radiation to surrounding areas. Other sources may include vehicle exhaust, air-conditioners, and street equipment. Reduced airflow because of tall buildings and narrow streets exacerbate the effect. the project team should consider installing light-colored mechanical equipment. Based on this I'd say you can exclude the roof areaRoof area is the area of the uppermost surface of the building which covers enclosed Gross Floor Area, as measured when projected onto a flat, horizontal surface (i.e. as seen in Roof Plan view). ‘Roofs’, or portions of roofs, covering unenclosed areas (e.g. roofs over porches and open covered parking structures) are not included in the areas used to evaluate compliance with SSc7.2, though they may be applicable to SSc7.1. covered by the seating in the calculation (and consider using light-colored seating), although if the roof below the seating is SRI compliant it wouldn't matter if you excluded it or not. This LI has not yet been approved or considered for 2009 projects, so the reviewer may consider it appropriate for your project if you were to reference it in your submittal.

Whoever is signing off on the form has to have his professional accreditation entered in his account otherwise it won't work. If you still have trouble einterh submit a feedback (upper right corner in LEED Online) or just submit it this way.

I am the LP and my name comes up on the form after signing with my initials. I will send it in as-is. "Feedback" has been taking way too long to respond lately.

Thank you for your help Susann!

Sorry to hear about the delays with feedback.
Do you have you license entered into your account? That at the same place where you add you LEED AP status. If not, that's the problem.

Good luck with your project.

Susann and anyone else facing this problem:
I just recieved comments back on Design Review. I had claimed this credit as the LPE. I am now being asked to fill in the form listing the compliant SRI roofing materials. That is likely why I was not getting points documented at the end of the form. Apparently when the form says that " A Licensed Professional Exemption (LPE) for a Registered Architect is available in lieu of a roof plan and product information," product information is still required on the table.

This may sound you are not really serious on achieving sustainability. SRI is not only color base (reflectivity) but also material base (emissivityEmissivity is the ratio of the radiation emitted by a surface to the radiation emitted by a black body at the same temperature.).

Painting it white will not get you better SRI. The Cool Roof Council recognizes there is a difference between steep sloped roofs and low sloped roofs; and the ratings are different for the condition which is why SS7.2 differentiates between low and high sloped roofs. I've had good usage of the GAF Elk Timberline Prestique shingles for high sloped roofs and have specified Certainteed Landmark Solaris and OC Durations Premium Cool Shingle. They are attractive, and yet meet CALGreen and LEED CRRC standards.

Synthetic turf would not qualify as green roof. An actual green roof has the advantage to keep moisture and a buffer between the interior and the exterior, which will not heat up so much. It's a tiny micro climate.
If you want to count it in regards to the SRI, when you will need that data from the manufacturer since it can vary so much depending on materials, color.
Good luck!

George,

SRI for natural materials are a little harder to come by because they vary for each sample. The closest thing I have seen is the data in this document- which includes an SRI of roughly 22 for brown painted wood shingles.

http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/publications/html/FSEC-CR-670-00/

Regards.