"For buildings without vegetation on the grounds, teams can earn points by reducing the use of potable waterPotable water meets or exceeds EPA's drinking water quality standards and is approved for human consumption by the state or local authorities having jurisdiction; it may be supplied from wells or municipal water systems. for watering any roof and courtyard garden space or outdoor planters, provided the planters and garden space cover at least 5% of the building site area (including building footprintBuilding footprint is the area on a project site used by the building structure, defined by the perimeter of the building plan. Parking lots, landscapes, and other nonbuilding facilities are not included in the building footprint., hardscape area, parking footprint, etc.). If the planters and garden space cover less than 5% of the building site area, the project is ineligible for this credit."
So this applies only to projects which does not have any ground available (such as building basements extending to the plot limits etc.), or this requirement applies to even projects where ground space is available. Kindly clarify.
This caveat applies to all project types, whether you've got a zero lot line site or a sprawling parking lot. The intent here, I believe, is to improve over the previous version of LEED, that didn't stipulate how much landscaping you needed to get the credit. So in theory, with the older system, you could have one planter, irrigate it efficiently, and get the credit. Now there is a minimum amount of site area that needs to be vegetated to qualify.
I too accept the theory on the new LEED rating system of having a minimum requirement for landscape areaThe landscape area is the total site area less the building footprint, paved surfaces, water bodies, and patios.. If its the requirement for all the projects, I feel its more appropriate that its been mentioned in the requirements section of the credit.
Moreover, eventhough it has been mentioned in the implementation part, the words "For buildings without vegetation on the grounds", I feel indicates a particular scenario of projects which does not have vegetation on natural ground (earth).
Your opinion on the above statement would be of help.
Balaji,
You make a good observation. It certainly seems that USGBC is creating a back door approach for projects without a shred of landscape on the ground. Perhaps the thinking is that if you have a large site, and you've gone and paved paradise and put up a parking lot, then you probably wouldn't have the 5% site coverage with planters and such. It's just too many planters.
Therefore, the application here would only be for urban, zero lot line-ish sites that don't have much ground to work with. In this case, it would be good to give these projects some parameters such as how much landscaping is required to qualify for the credit, which they have now done.
We have a call in to see if this is an accurate assumption or not, and I'll provide another post if we learn something new.
One follow up note... We received some guidance here from GBCI. A very prompt reply. The only concern is the use of the phasing "we believe":
"Though the Reference Guide and credit submittal form suggest otherwise, we believe that the 5% minimum landscaped area requirement was intended to apply to all projects whether the landscaped areas are ‘natural’ in-ground/at-grade areas, or planters, roof gardens, etc. If the requirement didn’t apply to both conditions, projects could leave a tiny sliver of in-ground planted area (say, less than 1% of the total site area) on almost any site and achieve the credit, while a similarly situated project with planters covering 4% of the site could not achieve the credit. A very small area (e.g. 1% site coverage) could meet the requirements with minimal plantings, but have relatively little impact on total water usage, whether it was irrigated or not. That kind of minimal differentiation between the design and baseline cases clearly wouldn’t meet the intent of the credit."
Brenden McEneaney replied
Green Building Program Advisor, City of Santa Monica Feb 04 2010
This general discussion may suggest somewhat of a rethinking of the water use reduction credits - namely that water use could be treated a bit more like energy and that we may want to measure total gallons (or percentage) of potable waterPotable water meets or exceeds EPA's drinking water quality standards and is approved for human consumption by the state or local authorities having jurisdiction; it may be supplied from wells or municipal water systems. saved rather than differentiating between indoor and outdoor water use.
Here in Southern California, irrigation systems are needed. Even if a non-potable source is provided, a potable make-up is usually required as a backup. But rainwater systems need to be very large (often prohibitively so - both financially and environmentally) to meet the annual needs of the landscape, since what little rain we get falls in a short window. A project here that achieves 95% landscape water savings seems to me to be achieving a far greater environmental benefit (even before looking at the inevitable urban runoff) than a project in a rainy climate that doesn't install an irrigation system, but more LEED points would be awarded the latter project...
Jean Maraisb.i.g. bechtold INGENIEURGESELLSCHAFT MBHSep 10 2009
How many points?
As far as I understand the wording in the Guide, one can achieve an EP point be conforming to one or more options when their benifites are additive.
Therefore if I achieve option 2, which requires that I conform to option 1 ("Reduce potable waterPotable water meets or exceeds EPA's drinking water quality standards and is approved for human consumption by the state or local authorities having jurisdiction; it may be supplied from wells or municipal water systems. consumption for irrigation by 50% from a calculated midsummer
baseline case.") then I conform to option 1 and 2 --> 4+1EP = 5pts.
However, the points allocated to option 2 are 4pts, with a tiny foot note stating "If the percent reduction of potable water is 100% AND the percent reduction of total water is equal to or greater than 50%, both
Option 1 & Option 2 are earned."...which leads me to believe that infact option 2 is indeed only worth 4pts.
A closer look will reveal that Option 2 will reduce the use of potable water used for irrigation by 100% thereby satisfiying the small print...but wait, there's more:
In the calculations section it states "If the percentage reduction of potable water use for irrigation is 100%, also
calculate the percentage reduction of total water (potable plus reuse) according to Equation 7."
This means for the EP you need to have Option 2 AND reduce TWA by 50%.
And then there's no little "badge" on the credit coverpage.
This leads me to believe that the post previous statement is infact incorrect and should read
Sorry for the confusion, the image/diagram in the Bird’s Eye View section of LEEDuser is inaccurate and there is no exemplary performanceIn LEED, certain credits have established thresholds beyond basic credit achievement. Meeting these thresholds can earn additional points through Innovation in Design (ID) or Innovation in Operations (IO) points. As a general rule of thumb, ID credits for exemplary performance are awarded for doubling the credit requirements and/or achieving the next incremental percentage threshold. However, this rule varies on a case by case basis, so check the credit requirements. point for this credit. This will be updated on the website shortly.
This credit allows projects to earn a maximum of 4 points. In order to attain all 4 points you must meet option 2 by reducing potable waterPotable water meets or exceeds EPA's drinking water quality standards and is approved for human consumption by the state or local authorities having jurisdiction; it may be supplied from wells or municipal water systems. applied by 100% AND by reducing total water applied by 50%. For example, if your project reduces potable water by 100% and the reduction for total water applied is only 20% you will only earn 2 points.
We have a roof going in where the manufacturer is insisting on a 3 year establishment irrigation. I cannot find in WE1 or SS7 points if we are to consider a green roof "landscaping" although I assume we do. The project has cistern (for toilet flushing), but getting that water to the roof will be difficult...
Heather, I hope someone will correct me if they have a different experience, but irrigation of green roof landscaping would fall under WEc1, and would not be allowed past one year, for plant establishment. I wonder if the manufacturer making this stipulation is aware of the LEED implications?
The manufacturer is aware of this, but is not budging on their insistance. They go so far as to say that they have dealt with this before on LEED jobs, and USGBC should change their policy not them... Obviously, we do not want to play with roof warrenties.
Shannon Gray replied
Consultant, YRG sustainability Oct 28 2009
I'd write a CIRCredit Interpretation Ruling. Used by design team members experiencing difficulties in the application of a LEED prerequisite or credit to a project. Typically, difficulties arise when specific issues are not directly addressed by LEED information/guide, I know there has been a lot of discussion around this and I imagine you could get away with a two year establishment period...three might be more difficult. But, if you have a good argument it could work.
Concerning credit WEc1.1 and 1.2, there are some circumstances where it is unclear whether the water used for watering must be considered as irrigation water per intent of the credit or process waterProcess water is used for industrial processes and building systems such as cooling towers, boilers, and chillers. It can also refer to water used in operational processes, such as dishwashing, clothes washing, and ice making..
For playing field in soccer stadium how should I consider it when calculating the total water applied for irrigation?
Shannon Gray replied
Consultant, YRG sustainability Jan 04 2010
That is a good question. On LEED for Schools projects you can decide to include or exclude playing fields for the landscape irrigation calculations but you must then be consistent across all credits. So, if you exclude the playing field from the landscape irrigation calculation you must also exclude it from the open space calculation. I would imagine you can take a similar approach in this situation, but it might be worth writing a CIRCredit Interpretation Ruling. Used by design team members experiencing difficulties in the application of a LEED prerequisite or credit to a project. Typically, difficulties arise when specific issues are not directly addressed by LEED information/guide to have an official say on the subject.
Overheard in an exchange about the possible use of cooling tower blowdownBleed-off, or blowdown, is the release of a portion of the recirculating water from a cooling tower; this water carries dissolved solids that can cause mineral buildup. water for irrigation:
Blowdown water for irrigation it depends! Blowdown typically contains high concentrations of minerals precipitated out of the cooling evaporation process.
Well maintained cooling towers may provide suitable water (lower Total Dissolved Solids TDS) but incoming municipal water will affect quality as well. Of course secondary filtration to remove the TDS is an option but at a cost.
Best bet is to collect blow down with other sources such as rainwater, condensate and greywater to dilute the TDS.
We have a project that is within a campus setting. The existing lawn areas with the leed boundary are not being altered. Are we required to include these in the lanscape calcs since they are not in the contract scope? Can we hatch these areas out and exclude them from the calcs?
Tristan Roberts replied
Editor – LEEDuser, BuildingGreen, LLC Jan 22 2010
Erik, why are you including the existing lawn areas in the LEED boundary if they are not a part of the project scope? Seems like the simplest thing here would simply be to leave them out of all your credit calcs.
That wouldn't help you with this credit, of course—but it's not clear to me how you are planning to earn this credit, anyway? Are there other landscaped areas you are hoping to use to earn the credit?
Might be better to include the landscaped areas in the project boundary to at least help with other SS credits.
WEc1 and planter boxes for pre-2009 rating systems
This is my first time in the forum, so I'm not familiar with the total range it covers. Everything I've seen on here so far is for 2009, but I'm looking for some official word on WEc1 and see that there's been some discussion on the subject in another thread.
Here's the issue. A Schools 2007, zero lot line project's landscaping consists entirely of six small planter boxes on a second floor roof terrace, which they intend to water for a one year establishment period. The new rating systems have set a 5% minimum of the site area for a project to qualify as "landscaped", but there's nothing numerical under the old rating systems. The LEED for Schools 2007 reference guide defines Landscape AreaThe landscape area is the total site area less the building footprint, paved surfaces, water bodies, and patios. as the total site area less the building footprintBuilding footprint is the area on a project site used by the building structure, defined by the perimeter of the building plan. Parking lots, landscapes, and other nonbuilding facilities are not included in the building footprint., paved surfaces, water bodies, patios, etc. Using that definition, this project shouldn’t qualify for WEc1.
The only CIRCredit Interpretation Ruling. Used by design team members experiencing difficulties in the application of a LEED prerequisite or credit to a project. Typically, difficulties arise when specific issues are not directly addressed by LEED information/guide I've been able to find that's related is this one: A LEED NC2.0/2.1 CIR Ruling dated 1/3/2002 allowed for planters to be removed from landscape watering calculations, and stated that any water use for the planters should be included in the calculations for Water Use Credit 3.1 and 3.2 that apply to water use within buildings.
If this project is allowed to count those boxes as landscaping, they're eligible for two points. Under the pre-2009 rating systems, is that what's being allowed?
Ben Stanley replied
LEED Consultant, YRG sustainability Jan 29 2010
Rick,
There's nothing in the LEED for Schools 2.0 rating system or reference guide to explicitly exclude planters from the landscape irrigation calculations so you could give it a try. However, given the direction of the current rating system, I wouldn't count those credits as "in the bag" until after the design review.
Ilana JudahDirector of SustainabilityFXFOWLEMar 09 2010
Indoor plants
I would like some clarification as to whether indoor plants that require irrigation would count for the purposes of this credit.
21 Comments
Clarification - 5% of Site Area as Landscape.
In LEEDv3.0 Reference Guide pg.182-183, it says:
"For buildings without vegetation on the grounds, teams can earn points by reducing the use of potable waterPotable water meets or exceeds EPA's drinking water quality standards and is approved for human consumption by the state or local authorities having jurisdiction; it may be supplied from wells or municipal water systems. for watering any roof and courtyard garden space or outdoor planters, provided the planters and garden space cover at least 5% of the building site area (including building footprintBuilding footprint is the area on a project site used by the building structure, defined by the perimeter of the building plan. Parking lots, landscapes, and other nonbuilding facilities are not included in the building footprint., hardscape area, parking footprint, etc.). If the planters and garden space cover less than 5% of the building site area, the project is ineligible for this credit."
So this applies only to projects which does not have any ground available (such as building basements extending to the plot limits etc.), or this requirement applies to even projects where ground space is available. Kindly clarify.
Thanking You.
Joshua Radoff replied Principal, LEEDuser Primary Author, YRG sustainability Aug 31 2009
This caveat applies to all project types, whether you've got a zero lot line site or a sprawling parking lot. The intent here, I believe, is to improve over the previous version of LEED, that didn't stipulate how much landscaping you needed to get the credit. So in theory, with the older system, you could have one planter, irrigate it efficiently, and get the credit. Now there is a minimum amount of site area that needs to be vegetated to qualify.
Clarification - 5% of Site Area as Landscape.
Dear Mr.Joshua,
I too accept the theory on the new LEED rating system of having a minimum requirement for landscape areaThe landscape area is the total site area less the building footprint, paved surfaces, water bodies, and patios.. If its the requirement for all the projects, I feel its more appropriate that its been mentioned in the requirements section of the credit.
Moreover, eventhough it has been mentioned in the implementation part, the words "For buildings without vegetation on the grounds", I feel indicates a particular scenario of projects which does not have vegetation on natural ground (earth).
Your opinion on the above statement would be of help.
Joshua Radoff replied Principal, LEEDuser Primary Author, YRG sustainability Sep 08 2009
Balaji,
You make a good observation. It certainly seems that USGBC is creating a back door approach for projects without a shred of landscape on the ground. Perhaps the thinking is that if you have a large site, and you've gone and paved paradise and put up a parking lot, then you probably wouldn't have the 5% site coverage with planters and such. It's just too many planters.
Therefore, the application here would only be for urban, zero lot line-ish sites that don't have much ground to work with. In this case, it would be good to give these projects some parameters such as how much landscaping is required to qualify for the credit, which they have now done.
We have a call in to see if this is an accurate assumption or not, and I'll provide another post if we learn something new.
Thanks,
Josh
Joshua Radoff replied Principal, LEEDuser Primary Author, YRG sustainability Sep 10 2009
One follow up note... We received some guidance here from GBCI. A very prompt reply. The only concern is the use of the phasing "we believe":
"Though the Reference Guide and credit submittal form suggest otherwise, we believe that the 5% minimum landscaped area requirement was intended to apply to all projects whether the landscaped areas are ‘natural’ in-ground/at-grade areas, or planters, roof gardens, etc. If the requirement didn’t apply to both conditions, projects could leave a tiny sliver of in-ground planted area (say, less than 1% of the total site area) on almost any site and achieve the credit, while a similarly situated project with planters covering 4% of the site could not achieve the credit. A very small area (e.g. 1% site coverage) could meet the requirements with minimal plantings, but have relatively little impact on total water usage, whether it was irrigated or not. That kind of minimal differentiation between the design and baseline cases clearly wouldn’t meet the intent of the credit."
Brenden McEneaney replied Green Building Program Advisor, City of Santa Monica Feb 04 2010
This general discussion may suggest somewhat of a rethinking of the water use reduction credits - namely that water use could be treated a bit more like energy and that we may want to measure total gallons (or percentage) of potable waterPotable water meets or exceeds EPA's drinking water quality standards and is approved for human consumption by the state or local authorities having jurisdiction; it may be supplied from wells or municipal water systems. saved rather than differentiating between indoor and outdoor water use.
Here in Southern California, irrigation systems are needed. Even if a non-potable source is provided, a potable make-up is usually required as a backup. But rainwater systems need to be very large (often prohibitively so - both financially and environmentally) to meet the annual needs of the landscape, since what little rain we get falls in a short window. A project here that achieves 95% landscape water savings seems to me to be achieving a far greater environmental benefit (even before looking at the inevitable urban runoff) than a project in a rainy climate that doesn't install an irrigation system, but more LEED points would be awarded the latter project...
How many points?
As far as I understand the wording in the Guide, one can achieve an EP point be conforming to one or more options when their benifites are additive.
Therefore if I achieve option 2, which requires that I conform to option 1 ("Reduce potable waterPotable water meets or exceeds EPA's drinking water quality standards and is approved for human consumption by the state or local authorities having jurisdiction; it may be supplied from wells or municipal water systems. consumption for irrigation by 50% from a calculated midsummer
baseline case.") then I conform to option 1 and 2 --> 4+1EP = 5pts.
However, the points allocated to option 2 are 4pts, with a tiny foot note stating "If the percent reduction of potable water is 100% AND the percent reduction of total water is equal to or greater than 50%, both
Option 1 & Option 2 are earned."...which leads me to believe that infact option 2 is indeed only worth 4pts.
A closer look will reveal that Option 2 will reduce the use of potable water used for irrigation by 100% thereby satisfiying the small print...but wait, there's more:
In the calculations section it states "If the percentage reduction of potable water use for irrigation is 100%, also
calculate the percentage reduction of total water (potable plus reuse) according to Equation 7."
This means for the EP you need to have Option 2 AND reduce TWA by 50%.
And then there's no little "badge" on the credit coverpage.
This leads me to believe that the post previous statement is infact incorrect and should read
Jean Marais replied b.i.g. bechtold INGENIEURGESELLSCHAFT MBH Sep 10 2009
Ignore very last unfinished sentence.
Shannon Gray replied Consultant, YRG sustainability Sep 10 2009
Sorry for the confusion, the image/diagram in the Bird’s Eye View section of LEEDuser is inaccurate and there is no exemplary performanceIn LEED, certain credits have established thresholds beyond basic credit achievement. Meeting these thresholds can earn additional points through Innovation in Design (ID) or Innovation in Operations (IO) points. As a general rule of thumb, ID credits for exemplary performance are awarded for doubling the credit requirements and/or achieving the next incremental percentage threshold. However, this rule varies on a case by case basis, so check the credit requirements. point for this credit. This will be updated on the website shortly.
This credit allows projects to earn a maximum of 4 points. In order to attain all 4 points you must meet option 2 by reducing potable waterPotable water meets or exceeds EPA's drinking water quality standards and is approved for human consumption by the state or local authorities having jurisdiction; it may be supplied from wells or municipal water systems. applied by 100% AND by reducing total water applied by 50%. For example, if your project reduces potable water by 100% and the reduction for total water applied is only 20% you will only earn 2 points.
Apply to green roofs?
We have a roof going in where the manufacturer is insisting on a 3 year establishment irrigation. I cannot find in WE1 or SS7 points if we are to consider a green roof "landscaping" although I assume we do. The project has cistern (for toilet flushing), but getting that water to the roof will be difficult...
Tristan Roberts replied Editor – LEEDuser, BuildingGreen, LLC Sep 29 2009
Heather, I hope someone will correct me if they have a different experience, but irrigation of green roof landscaping would fall under WEc1, and would not be allowed past one year, for plant establishment. I wonder if the manufacturer making this stipulation is aware of the LEED implications?
The manufacturer is aware of
The manufacturer is aware of this, but is not budging on their insistance. They go so far as to say that they have dealt with this before on LEED jobs, and USGBC should change their policy not them... Obviously, we do not want to play with roof warrenties.
Shannon Gray replied Consultant, YRG sustainability Oct 28 2009
I'd write a CIRCredit Interpretation Ruling. Used by design team members experiencing difficulties in the application of a LEED prerequisite or credit to a project. Typically, difficulties arise when specific issues are not directly addressed by LEED information/guide, I know there has been a lot of discussion around this and I imagine you could get away with a two year establishment period...three might be more difficult. But, if you have a good argument it could work.
Irrigation of playing field in a soccer stadium
Concerning credit WEc1.1 and 1.2, there are some circumstances where it is unclear whether the water used for watering must be considered as irrigation water per intent of the credit or process waterProcess water is used for industrial processes and building systems such as cooling towers, boilers, and chillers. It can also refer to water used in operational processes, such as dishwashing, clothes washing, and ice making..
For playing field in soccer stadium how should I consider it when calculating the total water applied for irrigation?
Best regards.
Shannon Gray replied Consultant, YRG sustainability Jan 04 2010
That is a good question. On LEED for Schools projects you can decide to include or exclude playing fields for the landscape irrigation calculations but you must then be consistent across all credits. So, if you exclude the playing field from the landscape irrigation calculation you must also exclude it from the open space calculation. I would imagine you can take a similar approach in this situation, but it might be worth writing a CIRCredit Interpretation Ruling. Used by design team members experiencing difficulties in the application of a LEED prerequisite or credit to a project. Typically, difficulties arise when specific issues are not directly addressed by LEED information/guide to have an official say on the subject.
Blowdown water for irrigation?
Overheard in an exchange about the possible use of cooling tower blowdownBleed-off, or blowdown, is the release of a portion of the recirculating water from a cooling tower; this water carries dissolved solids that can cause mineral buildup. water for irrigation:
Blowdown water for irrigation it depends! Blowdown typically contains high concentrations of minerals precipitated out of the cooling evaporation process.
Well maintained cooling towers may provide suitable water (lower Total Dissolved Solids TDS) but incoming municipal water will affect quality as well. Of course secondary filtration to remove the TDS is an option but at a cost.
Best bet is to collect blow down with other sources such as rainwater, condensate and greywater to dilute the TDS.
This article is useful.
Existing Landscaping
We have a project that is within a campus setting. The existing lawn areas with the leed boundary are not being altered. Are we required to include these in the lanscape calcs since they are not in the contract scope? Can we hatch these areas out and exclude them from the calcs?
Tristan Roberts replied Editor – LEEDuser, BuildingGreen, LLC Jan 22 2010
Erik, why are you including the existing lawn areas in the LEED boundary if they are not a part of the project scope? Seems like the simplest thing here would simply be to leave them out of all your credit calcs.
That wouldn't help you with this credit, of course—but it's not clear to me how you are planning to earn this credit, anyway? Are there other landscaped areas you are hoping to use to earn the credit?
Might be better to include the landscaped areas in the project boundary to at least help with other SS credits.
WEc1 and planter boxes for pre-2009 rating systems
This is my first time in the forum, so I'm not familiar with the total range it covers. Everything I've seen on here so far is for 2009, but I'm looking for some official word on WEc1 and see that there's been some discussion on the subject in another thread.
Here's the issue. A Schools 2007, zero lot line project's landscaping consists entirely of six small planter boxes on a second floor roof terrace, which they intend to water for a one year establishment period. The new rating systems have set a 5% minimum of the site area for a project to qualify as "landscaped", but there's nothing numerical under the old rating systems. The LEED for Schools 2007 reference guide defines Landscape AreaThe landscape area is the total site area less the building footprint, paved surfaces, water bodies, and patios. as the total site area less the building footprintBuilding footprint is the area on a project site used by the building structure, defined by the perimeter of the building plan. Parking lots, landscapes, and other nonbuilding facilities are not included in the building footprint., paved surfaces, water bodies, patios, etc. Using that definition, this project shouldn’t qualify for WEc1.
The only CIRCredit Interpretation Ruling. Used by design team members experiencing difficulties in the application of a LEED prerequisite or credit to a project. Typically, difficulties arise when specific issues are not directly addressed by LEED information/guide I've been able to find that's related is this one: A LEED NC2.0/2.1 CIR Ruling dated 1/3/2002 allowed for planters to be removed from landscape watering calculations, and stated that any water use for the planters should be included in the calculations for Water Use Credit 3.1 and 3.2 that apply to water use within buildings.
If this project is allowed to count those boxes as landscaping, they're eligible for two points. Under the pre-2009 rating systems, is that what's being allowed?
Any guidance will be greatly appreciated!
Ben Stanley replied LEED Consultant, YRG sustainability Jan 29 2010
Rick,
There's nothing in the LEED for Schools 2.0 rating system or reference guide to explicitly exclude planters from the landscape irrigation calculations so you could give it a try. However, given the direction of the current rating system, I wouldn't count those credits as "in the bag" until after the design review.
Indoor plants
I would like some clarification as to whether indoor plants that require irrigation would count for the purposes of this credit.
Thanks!
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