I see no problem with your supplier's invoice -- it is typical for a distributor to have materials that bear different FSCIndependent, third-party verification that forest products are produced and sold based on a set of criteria for forest management and chain-of-custody controls developed by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), an international nonprofit organization. FSC criteria for certifying forests around the world address forest management, legal issues, indigenous rights, labor rights, multiple benefits, and environmental impacts. claims, which in turn reflects the FSC control system used by the manufacturers of those products.

As a millworker with FSC CoC, you need to choose which control system to apply to the materials in turning them into FSC-certified woodwork. As part of obtaining your CoC, you should have developed written procedures for this process. If you have not done this, I don't see how you passed your audit!

Most architectural woodworkers use either the percentage system or the transfer system, and the specific answer to your question above varies according to which system you use.

There is no question that this is confusing until and unless you have become familiar with how FSC CoC works. One thing that appears to be in the works and that will fill a real need in the marketplace is a definitive set of guidance documents, templates, etc. to make it easier for woodworkers to implement FSC.

In the meantime, if you need help figuring this out, you should be able to get support from your certifier and/or FSC US. If that's not enough, then you might consider hiring a consultant who has helped a lot of woodworkers and others with FSC CoC, particularly as it relates to LEED, and who, for a reasonable fee, can get you squared away (sorry for lapsing into self-promortion, but all my posts to this forum are donations to the community, and I do make a part of my living providing services along these lines).

That's correct. The FSCIndependent, third-party verification that forest products are produced and sold based on a set of criteria for forest management and chain-of-custody controls developed by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), an international nonprofit organization. FSC criteria for certifying forests around the world address forest management, legal issues, indigenous rights, labor rights, multiple benefits, and environmental impacts. recycled content must go towards the MRc4 recycled content credit. You don't have to include the recycled content in the baseline wood budget either as it is not 'new' wood.

Best,
dp

Nick,
The vendor that supplied you or your subcontractor (whose COC # you gave) should provide you with an invoice that conforms to these 4 requirements. Here is an example.

a. b. c. Line items should look similar to this for all five items (2x4x16' #2 Hem Fir/FSCIndependent, third-party verification that forest products are produced and sold based on a set of criteria for forest management and chain-of-custody controls developed by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), an international nonprofit organization. FSC criteria for certifying forests around the world address forest management, legal issues, indigenous rights, labor rights, multiple benefits, and environmental impacts. Mixed Credit 22 pcs $5.00/pc $110.00

d. FSC COC # in bold at the top or bottom of the invoice or on every line item ex. (SW-COC-######)

I would think so, if the wood is FSCIndependent, third-party verification that forest products are produced and sold based on a set of criteria for forest management and chain-of-custody controls developed by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), an international nonprofit organization. FSC criteria for certifying forests around the world address forest management, legal issues, indigenous rights, labor rights, multiple benefits, and environmental impacts. and the partition manufacturer has FSC CoC - even though the partitions can be de-mounted and moved, I would think that they would still be considered "permanently installed" for the purposes of this credit - but perhaps there is a CIRCredit Interpretation Ruling. Used by design team members experiencing difficulties in the application of a LEED prerequisite or credit to a project. Typically, difficulties arise when specific issues are not directly addressed by LEED information/guide put there that someone knows of that gives us a definitive ruling?

You can exclude the salvaged wood from the calculations for this credit. Are you claiming anywhere else in MR?

Yes, this is included in MRc4.

You can't double count wood between these credits. If it is 'new' wood then it is in MRc7. If it is recycled or salvaged, it is counted in MRc4.

Hi Brian

I've heard that USGBC is considering changes to LEED requirements that would make FSCIndependent, third-party verification that forest products are produced and sold based on a set of criteria for forest management and chain-of-custody controls developed by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), an international nonprofit organization. FSC criteria for certifying forests around the world address forest management, legal issues, indigenous rights, labor rights, multiple benefits, and environmental impacts. CoC for woodworkers/millworkers optional rather than mandatory. Depending on whether or not this proves true, when any changes are implemented, and the timing of your project, this could offer an option for you.

Unfortunately, under current LEED requirements, there is no option that I am aware of for you to count the FSC materials purchased by the non-CoC millworker toward MRc7 - a fact that I personally regard as regrettable and an unnecessary barrier to the uptake of FSC-certified woodWood from a source that has been determined, through a certification process, to meet stated ecological and other criteria. There are numerous forest certification programs in general use based on several standards, but only the Forest Stewardship Council's standards, which include requirements that the wood be tracked through its chain-of-custody, can be used to qualify wood for a point in the LEED Rating System. into LEED.

Thank you for your response.

Bamboo is NEW wood, so it should go towards the MRc7 as long as it was purchased from a FSCIndependent, third-party verification that forest products are produced and sold based on a set of criteria for forest management and chain-of-custody controls developed by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), an international nonprofit organization. FSC criteria for certifying forests around the world address forest management, legal issues, indigenous rights, labor rights, multiple benefits, and environmental impacts. Certified company. It will also get the MRc6 credit if the job is looking for it.

Hi John - Can you share your source of information relative to FSCIndependent, third-party verification that forest products are produced and sold based on a set of criteria for forest management and chain-of-custody controls developed by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), an international nonprofit organization. FSC criteria for certifying forests around the world address forest management, legal issues, indigenous rights, labor rights, multiple benefits, and environmental impacts. Bamboo being permissable under the MR 7 Wood Credit? I haven't seen that done before.

Do you know if there is a publically available GBCI clarificaton of some type on that?

Best,
Doug

Doug, see LI#2535 made on 04/22/2009.

I've been told this directly by one of our project's review team. It is basically up to the project team's discretion. FSCIndependent, third-party verification that forest products are produced and sold based on a set of criteria for forest management and chain-of-custody controls developed by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), an international nonprofit organization. FSC criteria for certifying forests around the world address forest management, legal issues, indigenous rights, labor rights, multiple benefits, and environmental impacts. bamboo may be included, but it is not required to be. Be careful of any composite substrates (include in MR 4 and IEQ 4.4) and be sure to include only the new bamboo components of the assembly, if applicable.

Hi Marian - Here's the LEED InterpretationLEED Interpretations are official answers to technical inquiries about implementing LEED on a project. They help people understand how their projects can meet LEED requirements and provide clarity on existing options. LEED Interpretations are to be used by any project certifying under an applicable rating system. All project teams are required to adhere to all LEED Interpretations posted before their registration date. This also applies to other addenda. Adherence to rulings posted after a project registers is optional, but strongly encouraged. LEED Interpretations are published in a searchable database at usgbc.org. ruling language for LI #2535 04/22/2009 that Tristan referenced to above - which confirms that it is at the teams discretion.

Ruling
"The project team is seeking clarification as to whether or not bamboo can be considered a compliant material under the guidelines set forth in MRc7. The bamboo products in question have been harvested and sourced by companies that possess the necessary and current certifications from the Forest Stewardship Council (FSCIndependent, third-party verification that forest products are produced and sold based on a set of criteria for forest management and chain-of-custody controls developed by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), an international nonprofit organization. FSC criteria for certifying forests around the world address forest management, legal issues, indigenous rights, labor rights, multiple benefits, and environmental impacts.). This proposal is consistent with the credit intent to, ""Encourage environmentally responsible forest management"". In addition, bamboo is often used in many of the same applications as wood products, and is considered by the FSC to be a forest product despite its technical classification as a grass. Therefore, bamboo may be included in the calculations for both MRc6 and MRc7. If bamboo is added to the MRc7 calculations, all bamboo on the project (FSC or otherwise) must be accounted for in the value for all new wood-based components for the project."

dp

I assumed it was a wood product, but I was never an expert on the issue. We did a job once I excluded the bamboo from the MRc7 and the LEED AP on job asked for it and told me to include it. So I figured I was ok with my above statement, am I?

Yes, applicability of this LI is appropriate for both NC 2.2 and 2009. But again, you are not bound by it; you MAY include it (vague language in the LI (which is why I contacted the reviewers for confirmation) but are NOT compelled to. I done both on LEED projects, after calculating the pros and cons.

Hi John, It's technically a grass, but FSCIndependent, third-party verification that forest products are produced and sold based on a set of criteria for forest management and chain-of-custody controls developed by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), an international nonprofit organization. FSC criteria for certifying forests around the world address forest management, legal issues, indigenous rights, labor rights, multiple benefits, and environmental impacts. considers it a forest product which is makes ecological sense. And yes - you are correct about it being permissable in MR 7 and MR6. Please see the posts above for more details.

Best,
Doug

thank you for your help........
For more details, my concern was for the comment at the end of the ruling for the version 2.2:
"The ruling was written for projects using this rating system and must be applied based on the project's registration date".
So that was my doubt if the registration date defines if it is applicable or not for the project.

looking again at the USGBC web page I found this:
"All project teams are required to adhere to all LEED Interpretations and Addenda posted before their registration date. Adherence to rulings posted after a project registers is optional, but is strongly encouraged"
So we will include the fscIndependent, third-party verification that forest products are produced and sold based on a set of criteria for forest management and chain-of-custody controls developed by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), an international nonprofit organization. FSC criteria for certifying forests around the world address forest management, legal issues, indigenous rights, labor rights, multiple benefits, and environmental impacts. bamboo.

Thanks Doug, I am much more comfortable with your word than mine. I read your post so I am clear.

Solid wood can be considered post-considered recycled if it comes from building deconstruction, as is the case with the oak barn wood, and therefore qualify for MRc4. I believe that if the lumber is milled into flooring, that it is not considered for MRc3 which is for straight reuse of salvaged materials (e.g. take up an old maple floor and reuse the flooring).

The walnut qualifies for MRc7 provided that it is FSCIndependent, third-party verification that forest products are produced and sold based on a set of criteria for forest management and chain-of-custody controls developed by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), an international nonprofit organization. FSC criteria for certifying forests around the world address forest management, legal issues, indigenous rights, labor rights, multiple benefits, and environmental impacts. certified (not an "FSC Recycled" claim which qualifies a product for MRc4).

The Walnut is clearly NOT FSCIndependent, third-party verification that forest products are produced and sold based on a set of criteria for forest management and chain-of-custody controls developed by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), an international nonprofit organization. FSC criteria for certifying forests around the world address forest management, legal issues, indigenous rights, labor rights, multiple benefits, and environmental impacts., but it also is NOT new wood. Does it get entered under MRc7 at all?

I thought you said the Walnut was sustainably harvested.

Anyway, if it is salvaged or recycled, then it does not figure into MRc7 at all.

I did say it was sustainably harvested, but my vendor said it was NOT FSCIndependent, third-party verification that forest products are produced and sold based on a set of criteria for forest management and chain-of-custody controls developed by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), an international nonprofit organization. FSC criteria for certifying forests around the world address forest management, legal issues, indigenous rights, labor rights, multiple benefits, and environmental impacts.. I am not totally sure what that all meant, hence the reason I asked my initial question. Does barn wood ever qualify under MRc7? Is it new wood?

No, barn wood is not new wood and wouldn't ever qualify under MRc7

Thank you for your help Jason. It has been appreciated.

I know from plastic laminate vendors, Wilsonart & Formica, they were able to clearly to mention that on FSCIndependent, third-party verification that forest products are produced and sold based on a set of criteria for forest management and chain-of-custody controls developed by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), an international nonprofit organization. FSC criteria for certifying forests around the world address forest management, legal issues, indigenous rights, labor rights, multiple benefits, and environmental impacts. plastic laminate, GP, that it was 70% wood fiber & 30% resin. Now the confusion with me comes from the recycle content in that 70%. I am not sure if I helped your question any.

I do NOT break out the bonding agent in VC plywood.

It used to be that architectural woodworkers had the option to report the costs of their FSCIndependent, third-party verification that forest products are produced and sold based on a set of criteria for forest management and chain-of-custody controls developed by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), an international nonprofit organization. FSC criteria for certifying forests around the world address forest management, legal issues, indigenous rights, labor rights, multiple benefits, and environmental impacts. materials (vs. total new wood) instead of having to get FSC CoC and produce FSC-certified millwork/casework packages, but the LEED addenda released in the summer of 2011 changed that. For now, woodworkers are supposed to have FSC CoC and produce FSC-certified millwork/casework.

This being the case, in my mind, the kind of exacting calculations you are getting embroiled in are irrelevant. You should be calculating an FSC claim for your casework based on your FSC procedures, and then reporting the dollar value of FSC vs total new wood accordingly. So if you are producing $100,000 of casework and your FSC claim is FSC Mix 80%, then $80K counts toward achieving the point and $20K goes on the non-FSC side of the ledger. If it is generally true that with laminate the resin/plastic is 30% of the weight of the product and the rest is wood, then I guess you could deduct 30% from both the FSC dollar value and the non-FSC dollar value. For sure, it seems ridiculous to even think about getting into calculating the weight of bonding agents etc.

In my opinion, the LEED reference guide requirement to deduct the non-wood part of assemblies for purposes of credit calculation should be revisited. If a product is mostly wood (maybe more than 70% by weight or volume?), then I think it would make the most sense to factor the value of the entire product into the credit calculations rather than requiring people to parse all these details. It is causing a lot of confusion and wasted time, and does almost nothing to fulfill the intent of the credit which is to support sustainable forestry.

The FSCIndependent, third-party verification that forest products are produced and sold based on a set of criteria for forest management and chain-of-custody controls developed by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), an international nonprofit organization. FSC criteria for certifying forests around the world address forest management, legal issues, indigenous rights, labor rights, multiple benefits, and environmental impacts. paper used in plastic laminate would be considered "new wood" unless it's all post-consumerWaste generated by end users (households or commercial, industrial and institutional facilities) of a product no longer able to be used for its intended purpose that is recycled into raw material for a new product. recycled, in which case the FSC claim for the product should be one of the FSC Recycled claims (FSC Recycled Credit or FSC Recycled X%) rather than an FSC Mix claim (FSC Mix Credit or FSC Mix X%). FSC does not consider the percentage of paper vs. plastic in plastic laminate in calculating FSC claims, so if USGBC cares about this, then it would need to be treated as an "assembly" where the weight of the non-wood components of the assembly (in this case, the plastic) would be calculated as a percentage of the total weight and then the cost discounted accordingly.

If the plastic laminate has 70% paper & 30% resin, then of the 70% of paper we say that 20% is post-consumerWaste generated by end users (households or commercial, industrial and institutional facilities) of a product no longer able to be used for its intended purpose that is recycled into raw material for a new product., does:

30% of the weight of the plastic laminate go towards MRc7?
20% of weight go towards MRc4?

Does this also pertain to LEED v3?

As is evident from the comments posted here, there is lack of clarity and confusion on these points. The only real solution I can see is to seek a definitive ruling on this from USGBC and to amend the Reference Guide accordingly.

This said, I stand by my previous positions. What should govern calculations is the FSCIndependent, third-party verification that forest products are produced and sold based on a set of criteria for forest management and chain-of-custody controls developed by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), an international nonprofit organization. FSC criteria for certifying forests around the world address forest management, legal issues, indigenous rights, labor rights, multiple benefits, and environmental impacts. claim for the product(s) that you are using, OR, if you are CoC certified and are producing a certified product yourself, the FSC claim for your product.

If you are buying plastic laminate on particle board or MDFMedium-density fiberboard (MDF): Panel product used in cabinets and furniture; generally made from wood fiber glued together with binder; similar to particleboard, but with finer texture, offering more precise finishing. Most MDF is made with formaldehyde-emitting urea-formaldehyde binder. that bears an FSC Mix Credit claim, then in my opinion, 100% of the value should count toward the certified woodWood from a source that has been determined, through a certification process, to meet stated ecological and other criteria. There are numerous forest certification programs in general use based on several standards, but only the Forest Stewardship Council's standards, which include requirements that the wood be tracked through its chain-of-custody, can be used to qualify wood for a point in the LEED Rating System. credit regardless of whether some of the paper is post-consumerWaste generated by end users (households or commercial, industrial and institutional facilities) of a product no longer able to be used for its intended purpose that is recycled into raw material for a new product. recycled content, or for that matter, whether some of the content of the PB or MDF is pre- or post-consumer. If the product bears an FSC Recycled claim (FSC Recycled Credit or FSC Recycled X%), then it should count toward MRc4.

Let's face it, this kind of complex parsing of ingredients is in most cases a drop in the bucket when it comes to actually achieving a point under MRc4 and it does very little to serve the larger environmental objectives embodied in the intent of the relevant credits.

We need to get USGBC to come up with as simple and clear a ruling as possible and then move on!

Thank you Jason. I agree with the drop in the bucket comment. The problem is when directing purchasing on how to purchase a product. Even though all manufacturers "offer" an FSCIndependent, third-party verification that forest products are produced and sold based on a set of criteria for forest management and chain-of-custody controls developed by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), an international nonprofit organization. FSC criteria for certifying forests around the world address forest management, legal issues, indigenous rights, labor rights, multiple benefits, and environmental impacts. products...it can be painful when lead time & quantities are an issue.

In board products, generally recycled MDFMedium-density fiberboard (MDF): Panel product used in cabinets and furniture; generally made from wood fiber glued together with binder; similar to particleboard, but with finer texture, offering more precise finishing. Most MDF is made with formaldehyde-emitting urea-formaldehyde binder. & PB NAUF are available 24/7. The FSC is NOT. That is the reason for all the questions, from me any way.

Here is a potential solution for now (until USGBC clarifies the issue for us): If you are working on a LEED project that is pursuing MRc7, then you direct purchasing to seek products that have either an FSCIndependent, third-party verification that forest products are produced and sold based on a set of criteria for forest management and chain-of-custody controls developed by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), an international nonprofit organization. FSC criteria for certifying forests around the world address forest management, legal issues, indigenous rights, labor rights, multiple benefits, and environmental impacts. Mix %, FSC Mix Credit or an FSC 100% claim, and ignore any information related to recycled content that may come along with the products. If you are working on a project that is pursuing MRc4, then you direct purchasing to buy products with recycled content, ignore any FSC claims, and pay attention only to amount of recycled content. If you are working on a project that is pursuing both MRc4 and MRc7, and you have products available to you that bear BOTH an FSC Mix claim AND claim a given amount of post-consumerWaste generated by end users (households or commercial, industrial and institutional facilities) of a product no longer able to be used for its intended purpose that is recycled into raw material for a new product. recycled content, then and only then you break it out, deducting the recycled portion in your MRc7 submittals and applying that percentage of cost to MRc4 submittals instead.

The same thinking could apply if you are CoC certified and are producing FSC-certified millwork packages (as you should be according to the 2010 LEED Reference Guide addenda). In this case, you will be incorporating materials with FSC claims into your millwork package and crunching the numbers to arrive at your own FSC claim per your procedures -- most likely an FSC Mix % claim. You will obviously only do this for jobs that are seeking the certified woodWood from a source that has been determined, through a certification process, to meet stated ecological and other criteria. There are numerous forest certification programs in general use based on several standards, but only the Forest Stewardship Council's standards, which include requirements that the wood be tracked through its chain-of-custody, can be used to qualify wood for a point in the LEED Rating System. credit. If the same job is seeking MRc4, then you can track and report the recycled-content materials that you are using separately, and, if you are going to be a stickler about it, deduct those values when you invoice your FSC millwork for purposes of MRc7.

You're correct, there would be no need to supply FSCIndependent, third-party verification that forest products are produced and sold based on a set of criteria for forest management and chain-of-custody controls developed by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), an international nonprofit organization. FSC criteria for certifying forests around the world address forest management, legal issues, indigenous rights, labor rights, multiple benefits, and environmental impacts. wood for MR4. On the other hand, to satisfy MR7 every wood based material in an assembly (assuming you are supplying casework) must be certified.

Thank you Elizabeth. Still little confused with the MRc4 & MRc7 because all of my previous LEED documents i was showing on both and NO ONE ever complained or said it was incorrect.

Hi Michael - I can share my approach to defining"new wood vs non-new wood."

Generally I consider "new wood" to be wood that has not be used before for any purpose OR is not "off-fall" from other milling operations / shop fabrication, etc.

For example, a 2x4, a piece of veneer, a piece of moulding, a wood window or a wood panel containing wood from trees that were harested and processed "directly" into a product(with "directly" including the various intermediate steps like harversting the trees, shipping, milling and /or assembling or manufacturing).

This differs from a 2x4, a piece of veneer, a piece of moulding, a wood window or a wood panel made from wood salvadged from a building or construction site, recycled from old pallets or recycled from timber or lumbermill scrap, etc, etc.

Below is some language on "Recyled, Used, Remanufactured, etc" from the FTC, that while not specifically about wood and very generic, you may find it useful in defining new vs non-new:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The Federal Trade Commission Part 260 -- GUIDES FOR THE USE OF ENVIRONMENTAL MARKETING CLAIMS http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/grnrule/guides980427.htm

"Recycled content: A recycled content claim may be made only for materials that have been recovered or otherwise diverted from the solid waste stream, either during the manufacturing process (pre-consumer), or after consumer use (post-consumerWaste generated by end users (households or commercial, industrial and institutional facilities) of a product no longer able to be used for its intended purpose that is recycled into raw material for a new product.). To the extent the source of recycled content includes pre-consumer material, the manufacturer or advertiser must have substantiation for concluding that the pre-consumer material would otherwise have entered the solid waste stream.....Additionally, for products that contain used, reconditioned or remanufactured components, a recycled claim should be adequately qualified to avoid consumer deception about the nature of such components. No such qualification would be necessary in cases where it would be clear to consumers from the context that a product's recycled content consists of used, reconditioned or remanufactured components."

Best,
Doug

Diane,

Please refer to the Checklists tab above, about 2/3 of the way down under Design Development you'll find your answer.

I'm a bit unclear.
I understand if composite woodComposite wood consists of wood or plant particles or fibers bonded by a synthetic resin or binder. Examples include particleboard, medium-density fiberboard (MDF), plywood, oriented-strand board (OSB), wheatboard, and strawboard. is labeled FSCIndependent, third-party verification that forest products are produced and sold based on a set of criteria for forest management and chain-of-custody controls developed by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), an international nonprofit organization. FSC criteria for certifying forests around the world address forest management, legal issues, indigenous rights, labor rights, multiple benefits, and environmental impacts. Mixed Credit, 100% of it's cost goes towards the FSC value.

Where I am unclear is how to handle the FSC Mixed Credit Composite Wood's 100% pre-consumer qualities. If the composite wood does not have either an FSC Recycled or FSC Recycled Credit label, and contains 100% pre consumer recycled content, and is labeled FSC Mixed Credit, can I use the recycled value towards MR4 and use the Mixed Credit value towards MR 7?

Per the FSCIndependent, third-party verification that forest products are produced and sold based on a set of criteria for forest management and chain-of-custody controls developed by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), an international nonprofit organization. FSC criteria for certifying forests around the world address forest management, legal issues, indigenous rights, labor rights, multiple benefits, and environmental impacts. Standard, FSC Mix Credit accounts that manufacturers maintain are allowed to contain FSC COC material and/or FSC Recycled material. FSC Recycled material is not virgin material and is not required to come from a FSC COC certified forest. If only virgin materials are utilized in the FSC volume credit account, then that material would be considered new wood. If the mixed credit account is comprised of all FSC Recycled material or some FSC Recycled material, then the portion of FSC Recycled material should be applied to the MRc4 credit. This ensures that only new wood is applied to the MRc7 credit. As required by FSC, manufacturers maintaining FSC Mix Credit accounts track the type of fiber that is entered into their credit account and have the ability to identify if it is comprised of all virgin materials or a combination of virgin and recycled materials.

If I understand what you are saying, the FSCIndependent, third-party verification that forest products are produced and sold based on a set of criteria for forest management and chain-of-custody controls developed by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), an international nonprofit organization. FSC criteria for certifying forests around the world address forest management, legal issues, indigenous rights, labor rights, multiple benefits, and environmental impacts. Mixed Credit composite woodComposite wood consists of wood or plant particles or fibers bonded by a synthetic resin or binder. Examples include particleboard, medium-density fiberboard (MDF), plywood, oriented-strand board (OSB), wheatboard, and strawboard. that contains 100%preconsumer recycled content, cannot count as new wood & will not fall under the MR7 FSC credit. Is that correct? If so, why order FSC Mixed Credit- labeled wood (at 100% preconsumer recycled content) if it cannot count towards the point?
I thought LEED simplified the FSC rules by providing the label guideline, thus wood labeled as FSC Mixed Credit should include 100% of the costs?

Diane, I have asked exactly the same question. Please see Judy's answer below. No, you cannot count a wooden product made with 100% pre consumer content toward Credit 7 even if it is FSCIndependent, third-party verification that forest products are produced and sold based on a set of criteria for forest management and chain-of-custody controls developed by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), an international nonprofit organization. FSC criteria for certifying forests around the world address forest management, legal issues, indigenous rights, labor rights, multiple benefits, and environmental impacts. mixed credit. It can however counts toward Credit MR 4.

The Credit System in FSCIndependent, third-party verification that forest products are produced and sold based on a set of criteria for forest management and chain-of-custody controls developed by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), an international nonprofit organization. FSC criteria for certifying forests around the world address forest management, legal issues, indigenous rights, labor rights, multiple benefits, and environmental impacts. allows two types of inputs to be used as the basis for building credits in credit accounts: FSC-certified virgin wood or fiber AND post-consumerWaste generated by end users (households or commercial, industrial and institutional facilities) of a product no longer able to be used for its intended purpose that is recycled into raw material for a new product. recycled content. Where post-consumer content only is used to build credits, then the product should be invoiced with the FSC Recycled Credit claim. The problem comes in when both FSC-certified and post-consumer recycled inputs are used to build credits for an end product that will be sold with an FSC Mix Credit claim. This could happen, for example, with particle board and MDFMedium-density fiberboard (MDF): Panel product used in cabinets and furniture; generally made from wood fiber glued together with binder; similar to particleboard, but with finer texture, offering more precise finishing. Most MDF is made with formaldehyde-emitting urea-formaldehyde binder.. Because of the inherent nature of the credit system, in these cases, there is no way to determine whether a given batch of product is 100% from FSC virgin fiber, 100% from recycled fiber, 100% controlled wood, or any combination of the above. You just can't know. The only workable approach is to count FSC Mix Credit products toward MR 7 and not toward MR 4, and not to worry about the recycled content in this instance.

Jason, the reply --- "All recycled, reclaimed, and recovered material even if it is FSCIndependent, third-party verification that forest products are produced and sold based on a set of criteria for forest management and chain-of-custody controls developed by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), an international nonprofit organization. FSC criteria for certifying forests around the world address forest management, legal issues, indigenous rights, labor rights, multiple benefits, and environmental impacts. must be excluded from the MRc7 credit. This material can only contribute towards the MRc4 credit. The only FSC wood that is recognized in the MRc7 credit is "new" wood." --- regarding MRc4 vs MRc7 inputs was posted several questions below here.

We have always followed the approach you state here, which is our best understanding ( at the moment) of the requirements.

Can you address the comment copied above? If it is true, then projects using veneer wall panels, for example, would not be able contribute at all to MRc7 because the core would be a composite panel made of particleboard or MDFMedium-density fiberboard (MDF): Panel product used in cabinets and furniture; generally made from wood fiber glued together with binder; similar to particleboard, but with finer texture, offering more precise finishing. Most MDF is made with formaldehyde-emitting urea-formaldehyde binder..
Thanks

All I can say, Teresa, is that I think that attempting to exclude from MRc7 all recycled, reclaimed and recovered material, even if they are components of FSCIndependent, third-party verification that forest products are produced and sold based on a set of criteria for forest management and chain-of-custody controls developed by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), an international nonprofit organization. FSC criteria for certifying forests around the world address forest management, legal issues, indigenous rights, labor rights, multiple benefits, and environmental impacts. Mix products, is unworkable, and that the approach I favor (counting FSC Mix Credit products toward MR 7 and not toward MR 4, and not worrying about the recycled content in this instance) has been put forward to USGBC as part of a larger set of recommendations for rationalizing and, where possible, simplifying how FSC works in LEED. I hope that USGBC will make a definitive ruling on this and other topics sooner than later. Without this, I fear that the current confusion will continue indefinitely.

Thanks, Jason. I appreciate your input. I hope USGBC will take to heart the suggestions for simplification. Common sense is rarely complicated.

Hi Brian - We have included all casework and cabintetry in the MR7 credit calculation since we started doing LEED Certifications many years ago for the reason you have stated - we consider it to be permanently installed.

To add weight to that decision, casework and cabinets were historically specified in Division 6 of masterspec which includes most wood products and falls within the LEED NC MR boundary of including materials specified in the traditional Masterspec Divisions 2-10.

Furniture (which might be a classification for moveable casework) has long been specified in Division 11, which nominally falls outside the LEED NC MR Boundary.

Having said that, we also include Divison 12 specified pre-manufactured modular casework in the MR7 calculation as well - since we consider any casework secured to the building as permanent + the Division 12 casework would have traditionally been part of Division 6 prior to the 'pre-manufactured' designation.

Best,
Doug

Thanks Doug for a very complete answer. You're understanding of this credit was the same as mine, just wanted to bounce it off someone to make sure.

FSCIndependent, third-party verification that forest products are produced and sold based on a set of criteria for forest management and chain-of-custody controls developed by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), an international nonprofit organization. FSC criteria for certifying forests around the world address forest management, legal issues, indigenous rights, labor rights, multiple benefits, and environmental impacts. COC certified companies are required to list the FSC claim and their respective FSC certificate code on all invoices and shipping papers containing certified products. A FSC COC certified door distributor (if certified under the "Transfer" system), would transfer the exact same FSC claim from the manufacturers invoice of certified products on to their company invoice, listing their (the door distributors) FSC COC certificate code. If the door distributor is not FSC COC and not installing the product, then the chain is broken. If the door distributor is not FSC COC certified but installing the product, then they are not required to be FSC COC certified as they are considered to be a sub-contractor. A door distributor that is not FSC COC certified but installing the certified doors is required to supply a copy of the last invoice with a valid FSC COC number on it to validate the certified woodWood from a source that has been determined, through a certification process, to meet stated ecological and other criteria. There are numerous forest certification programs in general use based on several standards, but only the Forest Stewardship Council's standards, which include requirements that the wood be tracked through its chain-of-custody, can be used to qualify wood for a point in the LEED Rating System. through the supply chain. In this case it would be a copy of the manufacturers invoice. COC certificates for individual components of an assembly do not validate the end product. A manufacturer listing a FSC claim on a door whether it is all wood or only partly made of wood, is required to list the FSC claim of that assembly with their company FSC certificate code. This holds true whether they are manufacturing the product themselves or buying it from an out-source vendor and "transferring" the claim. Refer to the USGBC addenda dated 4/7/08 for more specifics.

Thanks Judy!
I'll try to explain to GBCI that we consider our supplier a sub-contractor and therefore fulfill the requirements.

Hi James,

The credit language refers to "wood building components," so I'm not sure if "exterior decking" would count as a "building component." Does anyone have experience with this?

Can you make a case that exterior wood exposed to the environment is ever 'permanent'? If you can, then I think that you would count it. However, I think most wood, like exterior decking, is not permanent as it tends to rot over time due to exposure.

I would definitely count it—and I think you must count it, in fact. I think that the "permanent' terminology being referred to here is in contrast with concrete forms, scaffolding, etc., used during construction.

So if we had wood benches permanently attached to the building on our roof garden, we would have to count it in MRc7?

Agree w/ Tristan; I would include the benches and decking.