Hi Redy,

I have a project with the same design conditions you described. We have met the requirement through exclusive use of 0.8gpf toilets and 0.25gpf urinals, which use 50%+ less water than their EPAct 2005 code compliant counterparts (1.6gpf toilets and 1.0gpf urinals). I am nearly ready to complete my formal documentation.

By chance have you undergone your certification review of Pilot 10- if so, do you have any lessons learned you can share?

Thanks in advance!

Hi Redy and Joanna,
We submitted this credit during the preliminary design application. The strategy that reduced potable waterPotable water meets or exceeds EPA's drinking water quality standards and is approved for human consumption by the state or local authorities having jurisdiction; it may be supplied from wells or municipal water systems. needed for the toilets and urinals consisted of high efficiency toilets (4 litres for full flush and 3 litres for low flush) and low water urinals (set to provide 1 litre per flush) with infrared control, which resulted in a 50% reduction that was accepted. However, we received a comment to upload evidence that a project team member has participated in the LEEDUser online pilot credit forum as required.
We are planning to submit the account details and the relevant comments made in this topic.
Can anyone confirm that this is the right documentation?
Many thanks,
Adreinn

Greetings Adrienn,

As the Pilot credit submittal requirements did not call for this supporting documentation I did not think to include it for the prelim submittal. Prelim review comments for my aforementioned project are anticipated from GBCI in early April so I can advise what I am asked to provide at that time. In advance of that, though, I think it could be as simple as printing this webpage to a PDF and circling your specific entry so its easy for the reviewer to see it quickly. Good luck!

Greetings all,

I just wanted to provide a quick update.

My project was just awarded both WEc2 and IDc1 for WEpc10 using the approach and documentation I referenced above. In addition, this in conjunction with high-efficiency flow fixtures also allowed the same project to achieve all available WEc3 points and an ID credit for Exemplary PerformanceIn LEED, certain credits have established thresholds beyond basic credit achievement. Meeting these thresholds can earn additional points through Innovation in Design (ID) or Innovation in Operations (IO) points. As a general rule of thumb, ID credits for exemplary performance are awarded for doubling the credit requirements and/or achieving the next incremental percentage threshold. However, this rule varies on a case by case basis, so check the credit requirements. of WEc3 (calculated 45%+ overall regulated fixture water use reduction).

In summary, the use of very low-flow plumbing fixtures is a strategy to cost-effectively achieve (8) points under LEED 2009.

I hope this feedback is helpful- Best of luck to you all in your efforts!

Hi Maria,

I am curious if you proceeded with documenting this credit and whether its undergone formal LEED certification review yet. Any update?

As for the 2/4 liter toilets, the closest I am aware of in the US is the 0.8gpf Stealth pressure assisted toilet available from Niagara Conservation. It poses the same concerns for maintenance and not all clients or plumbing engineers are comfortable with specifying it. I recommended the owner purchase one and install in one of their existing facilities (they have numerous multi-family buildings) to get a comfort level first and that made a big difference in the decision-making process. In this instance, the owner experienced no problems with the "test" fixture over the course of a year that design for the new LEED building was proceeding. As a result, this allowed the use of it to move forward with formal building owner approval.

From a functional perspective, it helped that the new LEED building was only 4 stories high (with only 75 unit toilets in all), as there's less potential for clogging over long length of pipe (stacking up through the building). It may have still been a concern in a high-rise building with 100's of toilets.

The support and open-mindedness of this project's owner was also a huge contributing factor to this process!

Molly, there is no exclusion against going for a regular credit and a similar pilot credit.

Yes, but the compliance strategies have been separated. If you have only 45% reduction in flushing water, and had 5% of rainwater reuse, you can only comply for option 2. In this case you also have to prove that the quality of the water is good enough.

Option 2 says that ''reused water must meet the applicable local code, for its intended use (e.g., on-site irrigation, toilet flushing, cooling tower).''
If there is no local code addressing flushing toilets with rainwater in my country (Czech Republic) is it sufficient just to add a narrative explaining situation?

Prudence, I can't speak to the technical credit requirements, but I don't see any issue relative to the LEED boundary. Projects can use land outside their boundary for specific credit compliance.

Hi Prudence,
Thank you for your comment. It doesn’t sound like the scenario you described would meet the requirements outlined under Option 3 but I can’t be sure without more information. Option 3 is intended to specifically recover and use the carbon/nitrogen. Under the aerated retention ponds scenario you described, are you recovering the nutrients and using them as fertilizer? Or does the pond remove/reduce the nutrients and then the effluent is used to irrigate? Option 2 seems like a better fit but we are still reviewing whether treatment and use of the wastewater outside of the LEED boundary is an issue. Is the location of the treatment ponds and vineyard adjacent to the LEED boundary? Are there local requirements in your area for using treated process wastewater for irrigation purposes?

Karen,

The water is treated to reduce the biological oxygen demand, etc. So it would probably count as reducing the nitrogen and carbon content, then once it has been treated the effluent is used for irrigation. There are local requirements to treat winery waste water, but no requirements that the effluent is used for irrigation. The treatment ponds and vineyards are directly adjacent to the project boundary or up to 1/4 mile away - all on land owned by the project owners.

Hi Prudence,
Based on your response, it doesn't appear that your project would meet the intent of Option 3. Option 2 would be a better fit provided your treated effluent meets the NSF 350 standard or local code (whichever is more stringent) for irrigation. We are continuing to review whether treatment and use of the wastewater outside of the LEED boundary is an issue and I will post a clarification as soon as a decision is made. Thanks, Karen

Hi Scott,
Thanks for your comment. We had a similar discussion when we were considering how to address wastewater from sinks, showers, etc. We agreed that the reduction of wastewater for those applications is credited under the water fixtures credit. Similarly, reducing a project’s runoff volume is credited under the sustainable sites stormwater design credit and would not be eligible for credit under Option 1 of the Sustainable Wastewater Management Credit. Option 1 is designed to specifically reduce wastewater volumes from toilets and urinals.

If this pilot credit is implemented, would there be an opportunity for exemplary performanceIn LEED, certain credits have established thresholds beyond basic credit achievement. Meeting these thresholds can earn additional points through Innovation in Design (ID) or Innovation in Operations (IO) points. As a general rule of thumb, ID credits for exemplary performance are awarded for doubling the credit requirements and/or achieving the next incremental percentage threshold. However, this rule varies on a case by case basis, so check the credit requirements.? If so what would the threshold be? Has any thought been given to providing additional points (beyond ID and regional) for teams that fully address the issue by reusing or eliminating 100% of the projects wastewater?

To clarify my comment above: I know the current exemplary perfromance for WEc2 is 100%. Will this be the case for pilot credit 10? If it is has there been thought given to having this exemplary performanceIn LEED, certain credits have established thresholds beyond basic credit achievement. Meeting these thresholds can earn additional points through Innovation in Design (ID) or Innovation in Operations (IO) points. As a general rule of thumb, ID credits for exemplary performance are awarded for doubling the credit requirements and/or achieving the next incremental percentage threshold. However, this rule varies on a case by case basis, so check the credit requirements. be worth more than one point?

Hi Lisa -

Pilot Credits are not eligible for achievement of Exemplary PerformanceIn LEED, certain credits have established thresholds beyond basic credit achievement. Meeting these thresholds can earn additional points through Innovation in Design (ID) or Innovation in Operations (IO) points. As a general rule of thumb, ID credits for exemplary performance are awarded for doubling the credit requirements and/or achieving the next incremental percentage threshold. However, this rule varies on a case by case basis, so check the credit requirements. points. This credit is in the draft for the next version of the rating system (released in 2012) and so we will go through the exercise of determining which credits are eligible for exemplary performance at a later time, but prior to the release of the next rating system.

For now, achievement of this credit through the Pilot Library is worth 1 innovation point. If you are able to go beyond the requirements, though, we'd like you to tell us about it and share your strategies so we can help other projects do the same.

Thanks for commenting!

I've worked on many projects which get between 30%-40% reduction through the use of dual-flushA type of water-saving toilet that gives a choice of flushes depending on the type of waste — solid or liquid. toilets and waterless urinals. This will make WE2 much more achievable.

Thanks for your comment. In the past, WEc2 has had fairly low credit achievement. When projects did achieve the credit, it was for the types of strategies you described, essentially using very low flow/flush fixtures and fittings. For the new credit, we wanted to make a clear distinction between the fixture and fitting efficiency credit, and the innovative wastewater credit.

With this new approach, we hope to incentivize innovative water use/water saving strategies, while keeping the fixture and fitting water use reductions contained within the fixture and fitting credit. As the credit is now written, the specific strategy used is not prescribed, so there is some flexibility in how projects earn the credit.

Projects will still be able to receive credit for going beyond the thresholds in the fixture and fitting credit through exemplary performanceIn LEED, certain credits have established thresholds beyond basic credit achievement. Meeting these thresholds can earn additional points through Innovation in Design (ID) or Innovation in Operations (IO) points. As a general rule of thumb, ID credits for exemplary performance are awarded for doubling the credit requirements and/or achieving the next incremental percentage threshold. However, this rule varies on a case by case basis, so check the credit requirements. in the ID section.

Feedback we got from projects that have installed innovative wastewater treatments - typically living machines - is that there are still too many bugs in the system (no pun intended) - primarily cost and maintenance, to the extent that we are reluctant to consider them for our larger projects.
As for the waterless urinals - we have encountered a lot of pushback from intended users, and less than glowing reports from current ones. State agencies in California are replacing waterless urinals in their buildings with low-flush ones.