Green Globes Discussion Forum

11 replies [Last post]
LEED AP BD+C, Executive Editor – LEEDuser BuildingGreen, Inc. Jun 02 2011 LEEDuser Moderator Post a Comment

This LEEDuser forum thread is for discussion of the Green Globes rating system. If you have questions on Green Globes, experience you want to share, or other perspectives, please use this forum!

11 Comments

0
0
Ramkrishna kashyap Electrical Engineer Prime project International Dubai
Feb 04 2016
Guest

Green Globes CIEB Technical Reference Manual?

Project Location: United States

I found the technical reference manual for Green Globes NC, but was wondering if someone could help me find one for Green Globes CIEB?

Thanks

1
1
0
Tristan Roberts LEED AP BD+C, Executive Editor – LEEDuser, BuildingGreen, Inc. May 04 2017 LEEDuser Moderator

Here are all the Green Globes resources. I don't see a techinical guide for CIEB.

Post a Reply
0
0
Patricia Lloyd Sustainability Manager Leopardo Companies, Inc.
Jul 19 2012
LEEDuser Member
414 Thumbs Up

ID Credit for Dual Certification

Hi I have a project that is going for dual certification. It has just been awarded a 3 Globe rating for Green Globes and looks to land strongly in the middle of LEED Silver. Do you think an innovation in design credit can be applied for for achieving an additional sustainable building certification on the building, or is it too much of a conflict of interest to fly?

1
1
0
Tristan Roberts LEED AP BD+C, Executive Editor – LEEDuser, BuildingGreen, Inc. Sep 04 2012 LEEDuser Moderator

Patricia, I don't think it would fly, but not because it's a conflict of interest. One of the policies with ID credits is that they must provide a quantifiable environmental benefit that is not already covered by other LEED credits. I think GBCIThe Green Building Certification Institute (GBCI) manages Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) building certification and professional accreditation processes. It was established in 2008 with support from the U.S. Green Building Council (USGBC). would question what the additional benefit is of the GG certification, that is not already addressed by the LEED credits you have earned.

Post a Reply
0
0
April Ambrose Territory Manager Viridian
Jul 14 2011
LEEDuser Member
3246 Thumbs Up

LEED vs. Green Globes

We're always looking for things that compare LEED to Green Globes so that we can address these issues with our clients. Here is a short internal summary we put together with resources from leeduser. Comments?

LEED versus Green Globes (http://www.leeduser.com/topic/getting-know-green-globes)
• As a tool, Green Globes is fine. As a rating system it doesn’t have enough transparency, standardization, or minimum standards. It does highlight LEED’s shortcomings. I'd rather have LEED that is intended to create and maintain a standard of quality that responds to these needs rather than a Green Globes whose intention is to provide an easier way to certification without upholding the substance.
Problems with LEED:
• Needs to be more responsive to project specifics.
• Needs more flexibility.
• Needs a better online system.
• Needs better response time and consistency among reviewers.

Problems with Green Globes:
• The main issue, to me, is the scoring of those subjective issues like space use optimization (and many many more) where a team can say, "yeah, we're doing that" and the reviewer can say "well, ok," without any of the transparency as to what thresholds have been met.
• No prerequisites in Green Globes
o Does not require minimum performance.
o There are no prerequisites, so a building could provide no outdoor air, for example, make all the occupants sick and die, and still be certified.
• Little transparency in Green Globes
o When I hold up a LEED scorecard, I'm like a doctor reading a patient's chart. I know what's going on in the building, what they achieved, what they didn't, and I can usually find the associated strategies by looking around said patient-building. But with Green Globes, there is no "checklist" to see. Or rather, it's damn hard to get a hold of one unless you have a project in the works. It is therefore really hard to know what's weighted highly, what specific measures they are looking for, etc. This again falls into the lack of transparency trap, which for me is one of the program’s biggest failings to date.
• Green Globes uses Target Finder instead of Energy Model
o Also, I'm not sure I think that using Target Finder for to score a project’s energy performance is a good idea. I could be sold on this point, but I'm on the fence. Our use of Target Finder on New Construction projects has provided a rough sense of where a project should end up, but it seems a bit arbitrary. Plus, you miss out on the use of energy modeling as a way to explore options and encourage learning of the relative value of one energy-saving measure versus another (note: in talking to Green Globes representatives, I got the impression that one could use energy modeling as an alternative compliance path, and that almost any energy model would do (yikes!), but again, there is so little transparency that one has to really hustle to try to get any info.

Post a Reply
0
0
Chris VanderWeyden Director CodeGreen Solutions
Jul 13 2011
Guest
27 Thumbs Up

Green Globes

Considering that in 2008 Jones Lang LaSalle acquired ECD ENERGY AND ENVIRONMENT CANADA LTD, who developed Green Globes. ... I think there are inherent conflicts of using a rating system owned by a private management company; especially if you client is not JLL. Just though I would put this out there for all to be aware of before considering using Green Globes.

References:

http://www.greenbiz.com/news/2008/07/10/jones-lang-lasalle-acquires-toro...

http://www.ic.gc.ca/app/ccc/srch/nvgt.do?sbPrtl=&prtl=1&estblmntNo=12345...

1
2
0
David Eldridge Project Manager, Grumman/Butkus Associates Jul 13 2011 LEEDuser Member 1024 Thumbs Up

To clarify, my experience is with the US Based Green Building Initiative, not the Canadian version. (These are separate entities.)

2
2
0
David Eldridge Project Manager, Grumman/Butkus Associates Jul 13 2011 LEEDuser Member 1024 Thumbs Up

I seem to have lost my original post:

Assuming people on this forum are generally familiar with LEED's advantages, here are three advantages for Green Globes. As I mention above, my experience is only with the Green Building Initiative's program in the US, which is separate from the Canadian version.

1) As there aren't prerequisites, a building can be certified for all-around performance even missing in an area that would eliminate it from LEED consideration.

For instance in the comparison between EBOMEBOM is an acronym for Existing Buildings: Operations & Maintenance, one of the LEED 2009 rating systems. and Green Globes Continuous Improvement of Existing Buildings (CIEB), if a building didn't achieve the needed ENERGY STAR rating it could still demonstrate an overall performance in CIEB (taking a big penalty for sure), but would be excluded from attempting EBOM certification.

2) There is an on-site third party survey and interview for every project.

3) The 1,000 point scale may be more helpful in evaluating a portfolio of buildings for performance and improvement when considering CIEB.

Post a Reply
0
0
Raphael Sperry Simon & Associates, Inc. Green Building Sonsultants
Jul 13 2011
Guest
501 Thumbs Up

A troubled history

In terms of negatives users should be aware of, I find the origins of Green globes quite troubling. The original system was launched as a competitor to LEED, although it was actually was very similar to LEED, with over 80% of the credits (by my count) being copied from LEED. One of the most notable differences was that the credits for certified woodWood from a source that has been determined, through a certification process, to meet stated ecological and other criteria. There are numerous forest certification programs in general use based on several standards, but only the Forest Stewardship Council's standards, which include requirements that the wood be tracked through its chain-of-custody, can be used to qualify wood for a point in the LEED Rating System. put SFI and other industry-sponsored forest certification schemes on an equal footing with FSCIndependent, third-party verification that forest products are produced and sold based on a set of criteria for forest management and chain-of-custody controls developed by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), an international nonprofit organization. FSC criteria for certifying forests around the world address forest management, legal issues, indigenous rights, labor rights, multiple benefits, and environmental impacts., which was developed in partnership with the environmental community. (LEED has only accepted FSC, which is the higher environmental standard.) In fact, Green Globes was originally supported by only two major players: American Forest & Plywood Association (who also wrote the SFI forestry standard), and National Association of Homebuilders (representing AFPA's biggest customers). Neither organization has environmental credibility. As I see it, after AFPA launched SFI to compete with FSC, it launched Green Globes to compete with LEED. This is a classic "greenwashing" tactic -- to confuse the marketplace by introducing bogus competing certifications.

The authors defend this practice by claiming that the green building sector benefits from more choice among certification standards. I think that's a poor argument. We don't need competing standards to the national Organic standard for food -- but what we get from industry are attempts to pressure the National Organic Standards Board to lower their standards and misleading claims of "natural" foods (which is an unregulated term) to confuse the marketplace. In the building arena, we don't need competing building codes; we need a clear standard for the protection of life safety. Nor will competing standards for green help the building industry to educate our clients and partners who have less time to learn about the environmental impacts of our industry than we do. When planning for long-term sustainability and environmental protection, we need clear standards with a high bar, not a dubious competition. The forest industry couldn't get SFI accepted by LEED (although they are still trying), so they set up this dubious competitor.

In a recent LEED EBO&M project I undertook for a large commercial office tower one of the tenants was a forestry company that objected to the property management using LEED as their standard as they would have preferred Green Globes. Their objection was based purely on the forest standards used by the two rating systems, which account for 1-2% of the total content. To me that indicated that Green Globes is still very much a creature of the forestry industry. I think that potential Green Globes users should be aware of the lack of credibility that the rating system has within the environmental community.

Post a Reply
0
0
Liz Wilcoxen Douglas G. Peterson and Associates
Jun 02 2011
Guest
22 Thumbs Up

Green Globes Questions

Hi everyone-

I'd love to learn more about Green Globes! Has anyone worked with the program before?

Was it as user friendly as they say?
What was the cost and timeline like?
Is it comparable to LEED?
How stringent is it?
Are there any negatives I should know about?

Thanks!!!!

1
1
0
Margaret Montgomery Principal, NBBJ Jun 07 2011 LEEDuser Member 452 Thumbs Up

We've been investigating recently, and found it difficult to understand how the ANSI standard relates to the online certification process. Here's the current story:
The ANSI standard is quite rigorous. It seems to have been well thought out, with a total of 1000 credits possible (but the total goes down when one of the credits is N/A for your project). Unfortunately, this is NOT the online certification system. There's a call out for pilot projects, and it appears that there have been no pilot projects yet undertaking this ANSI standard. There appears to be quite a bit of documentation that needs to be MADE AVAILABLE to the reviewer, although not a lot of direct generation of content. The pilot program, at this point, would be a paper process like the original LEED process, until they have developed the full online suite of tools.
If you register a project on the website, you will be registering for the "legacy", for lack of a better word, rating system.

Post a Reply

Start a new comment thread

Jun 28 2017
Type the characters you see in this picture. (verify using audio)
Type the characters you see in the picture above; if you can't read them, submit the form and a new image will be generated. Not case sensitive.

Copyright 2017 – BuildingGreen, Inc.