LEED for Healthcare forum - LEED-HC users welcome!

120 replies [Last post]
LEED AP BD+C, Editorial Director – LEEDuser BuildingGreen, Inc. Nov 13 2011 LEEDuser Moderator Post a Comment

Do you have questions on LEED for Healthcare?

Please visit LEEDuser's LEED for Healthcare pages, including credit language display and credit-by-credit forums.

The forum on this page, previously a forum for all LEED-HC issues and credit discussions, will only address broad Healthcare issues going forward.

 

120 Comments

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Omar Katanani
Apr 28 2014
LEEDuser Member
7702 Thumbs Up

Choice between LEED NC & LEED HC

Dear All,

We have a potential hospital outside the US which needs to be registered under LEED. The building will be a fully functioning hospital (including surgery rooms and ~400 inpatient beds).

I learned that LEED for HC 2009 is available for international projects.

My questions are:
1) are such projects obliged to go for HC, or they have the choice between NC & HC?
2) would you consider certifying under LEED HC easier than NC (given the type of building)? Or are there many complex additional requirements whereby the design team would need to do "a lot" to achieve an equivalent score under LEED NC?

Thanks!

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Usama Eita
Mar 10 2014
LEEDuser Member
202 Thumbs Up

Design and Construction credits

Please, I'd like to know the design credits and prerequisites for Healthcare v 2009.
Thanks

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz Mar 10 2014 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

Usama,

Are you looking for a list of design credits versus construction credits or something more general? This link takes you to the online program overview for the Healthcare program. http://www.usgbc.org/Docs/Archive/General/Docs8878.pdf

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Usama Eita Mar 10 2014 LEEDuser Member 202 Thumbs Up

Susan, Thanks a lot for your reply.
I am looking for a list of design credits versus construction credits to know which credits related to the design phase and which credits are related to the construction phase? Thanks

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Lauren Sparandara Sustainability Manager Google
Dec 06 2012
LEEDuser Expert
15177 Thumbs Up

MOB (Medical Office Building) LEED-NC or LEED-HC?

Hello,

I am working on a project that is a medical office building. It has outpatient care (more than 60% of the area is outpatient) but it operates like an office space. For instance,

-It's working hours are a normal 9-5 day, and not 24-hours

-It is overseen by OSHPD but is not required to follow OSHPD's requirements, for instance it's air change requirements

-It's a Type B building and not I or I2.

They don't have the same isolation issues that hospitals have.

Also, recently one of our team members attended a Greenbuild session where it was discouraged for projects to go for LEED-H when they are medical office buildings. However, when I look at this guidance: http://www.usgbc.org/ShowFile.aspx?DocumentID=10135 I get concerned that it would be required for us to use LEED for Healthcare.

Any advice from others on this?

Thank you.
Lauren

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Mara Baum Healthcare Sustainable Design Leader, LEED Fellow, HOK Dec 06 2012 LEEDuser Expert 7427 Thumbs Up

Hi Lauren,

I agree that the language is a little fuzzy. The challenge with outpatient facilities is that some are glorified office buildings that happen to house doctors and some are basically full hospitals (with procedures) but where patients don't stay overnight. The document that you reference doesn't address that clearly at all, but the rating system itself says "LEED for Healthcare was written primarily for inpatient and outpatient care facilities and licensed long term care facilities. The rating system may also be used for medical offices, assisted living facilities and medical education and research centers." In other words, you should have the choice.

Many of the credits are simply not applicable to buildings that are not heavily clinical, which is likely why the Greenbuild presentation made that recommendation. (Which one was it?)

Good luck!

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Lauren Sparandara Sustainability Manager, Google Dec 06 2012 LEEDuser Expert 15177 Thumbs Up

Thanks Mara! I thought of you when I wrote that question. ;-)

I am not certain what greenbuild preso it was. I would have to check with my colleague.

We have to make our decision ASAP regarding the rating system. Do you know of anyone we could chat with that could help to definitively guide us one way or another? Our preference would be LEED-NC because our project is mostly operating like an office building so what we would like is confirmation that that is acceptable.

I appreciate your help!

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Mara Baum Healthcare Sustainable Design Leader, LEED Fellow, HOK Dec 06 2012 LEEDuser Expert 7427 Thumbs Up

The language in the rating system itself clearly supports that you have the choice of using either NC or HC, so you shouldn't have any trouble with USGBC on that. It sounds like NC is definitely the most appropriate one in your case.

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz Dec 06 2012 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

I second Mara's recommendation. It sounds like you are primarily office use and NC would be a better fit. I have a couple of suggestions on people to call. PM me at smw@wilmot.com.

Susan

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Hernando Miranda Owner, Soltierra LLC Dec 06 2012 Guest 7080 Thumbs Up

My concern with split LEED rating system buildings is that the GBCI project reviewers have insisted that elements of each of the rating systems be included in the submittal.

For example, if NC is the primary rating system, EQp1 follow healthcare requirements for that part of the project and NC for the other part.

If you can argue your way out of LEED Healthcare (HC), do so. It is a significantly more expensive documentation process than NC. Many credits worth separate points in NC are merged together in HC.

The USGBC really needs to clarify the requirements for split rating system projects. The LEED reviewers seem to follow rules not published for project teams to see.

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Mara Baum Healthcare Sustainable Design Leader, LEED Fellow, HOK Dec 06 2012 LEEDuser Expert 7427 Thumbs Up

With respect to Lauren's issue, USGBC doesn't do a terribly good job of even defining "what is healthcare" let alone how to handle a building with multiple rating system program types.

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Hernando Miranda Owner, Soltierra LLC Dec 06 2012 Guest 7080 Thumbs Up

Which is why she should be prepared to include some Healthcare requirements as part of a LEED NC project.

I was forced to integrate NC, CS and CI into a NC project. The project happened to be "office-style" Healthcare just like Lauren's, and it included about 5% CS space. The CS part of the project had to include CI tenant requirements even though CI was not a part of the project scope.

That project was not forced to use Healthcare 2009 ventilation requirements because the ventilation requirements for Healthcare was still included in ASHRAE 62.1-2004 at the time or registration. We did follow the ventilation requirements for Healthcare included in the Appendix of ASHRAE 62.1.

What stuck me about the review comments we initially received was the review did not know ASHRAE 62.1-2004 included an appendix for healthcare ventilation. We had to explain them that ASHRAE 62.1 ventilation requirements had indeed been met for a healthcare project.

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Tristan Roberts LEED AP BD+C, Editorial Director – LEEDuser BuildingGreen, Inc.
Oct 08 2012
LEEDuser Moderator

LEED for Healthcare on LEEDuser

Greetings LEED-HC users! LEEDuser is now displaying the credit language for the entire LEED for Healthcare rating sytem on LEEDuser, with forums tied to individual credits. You can find these resources using our handy LEED credit nagivator tool.

Please keep the Healthcare discussion going—on those credit-specific forums. This forum can continue to be a home for broad healthcare issues.

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Emil Andersson Green Certification Coordinator , Skanska Sweden Oct 09 2012 Guest 376 Thumbs Up

Tristan:
Is it possible to copy the comments/questions from this forum and move them to the appropriate place in the new LEED for Healthcare forum? That way one does not have to double-check both forums for guidance.

Kindly
Emil

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz Oct 09 2012 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

I second the moving of these discussions into credit specific pages.

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Tristan Roberts LEED AP BD+C, Editorial Director – LEEDuser, BuildingGreen, Inc. Oct 09 2012 LEEDuser Moderator

I'll see what I can do about moving the posts. I anticipated that it would be desired, but also that it may not be technically feasible. However, I should be able to arrange at least a low-tech version.

 

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Tristan Roberts LEED AP BD+C, Editorial Director – LEEDuser, BuildingGreen, Inc. Dec 11 2012 LEEDuser Moderator

I have reposted the highlights onto the more specific forums. Want to keep up with new posts on the credit-specific LEED for Healthcare forums, even if you haven't posted a question there? Go to this page, and click on as many of the credits as you like, and then use the subscribe link at the top of each forum:

http://www.leeduser.com/leed-credits

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Charles Popeck President Green Ideas, Inc.
Sep 17 2012
LEEDuser Member
62 Thumbs Up

LEED for Healthcare IEQ 4.3 - New Flooring Standards

IEQ 4.3 requires compliance with new standards for all flooring: “Carpet and all hard surface flooring installed in the building interior shall comply with the testing and product requirements of the California Department of Public Health Standard Method for the Testing and Evaluation of Volatile Organic Chemical Emissions From Indoor Sources Using Environmental Chambers version 1.1 (CDPH/EHLB Standard Method v1.1), modeled using the standard office building protocol parameters and certified as compliant by an independent third party.”

Currently there seems to be no website listing compliant products like the CHPS website for acceptable flooring products for schools. Is there any guidance on finding compliant products?

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Bruce Maine Sustainable Design Consultant Sep 18 2012 Guest 880 Thumbs Up

Mark,
CDPH/EHLB Standard Method v1.1was formerly known as 01350 and if you run searches on the Scientific Certification System website for 01350 compliant products you can identify numerous products.

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Bruce Maine Sustainable Design Consultant
Aug 16 2012
Guest
880 Thumbs Up

Prop 65 Restrictions in IEQ 4 Group 1

Good morning. I'm having trouble geting my arms around the requirement that adhesives and sealantsA sealant has adhesive properties and is formulated primarily to fill, seal, or waterproof gaps or joints between 2 surfaces. Sealants include sealant primers and caulks. (SCAQMD Rule 1168. )Sealants are used on wood, fabric, paper, corrugated paperboard, plastic foam and other materials with tiny openings, often microscopic, that may absorb or discharge gas or fluid. contain not more than 1 percent of chemicals listed in Prop 65. I've been able to track down a few sealants that comply but I'm fairly confident one sacrifies performance, therefore inviting liabilty, if this credit is pursued. Moreover, the MR credit in LEED 2012 requires no Prop 65 chemicals while the IEQ credit is still at levels greater than 1 percent. I'd certainly appreciate any observations or strategies that others have used in pursuing this credit. Disclaimer: I voiced opposition to this credit in the public review.

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz Sep 17 2012 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

Bruce, thanks for clearing a path on this. We have not gotten to changing our specifications to meet these LEED HC credits. Have you gotten any where with the manufacturers? What does the scorecard look like? Can you drop an MR credit in favor of the IEQ credit? Disclaimer: I opposed this as well.

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Bruce Maine Sustainable Design Consultant Sep 18 2012 Guest 880 Thumbs Up

Good morning, Susan. We have a number of HC projects on the boards and all have the infamous "question mark" under IEQ 4c1. I've been able to include some products like EcoBond adhesives in specifications but as a general rule many manufacturers claim the chemistry just isn't there yet. Don't know what will happen to all those good performing low and zero VOC paints if the Prop 65 credit is adopted in 2012 (or whatever it is now), as Titanium Dixoide (Prop 65 chemical) levels often exceed 20 percent. The USGBC has taken a document intended to inform citizens and turned it into a regulatory tool. I'm all for getting toxics out of the built environment but maybe the credits should have addressed percentages like RC or RM and let the market move forward. At least I don't have to worry about it in my CalGreen defaults!

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Hernando Miranda Owner, Soltierra LLC Sep 18 2012 Guest 7080 Thumbs Up

Prop 65 is the California Department of Health Services 01350 chamber testing standard. It is onerous, expensive, and serves no purpose in LEED. You can forget about trying to earn EQc4 for adhesives and sealantsA sealant has adhesive properties and is formulated primarily to fill, seal, or waterproof gaps or joints between 2 surfaces. Sealants include sealant primers and caulks. (SCAQMD Rule 1168. )Sealants are used on wood, fabric, paper, corrugated paperboard, plastic foam and other materials with tiny openings, often microscopic, that may absorb or discharge gas or fluid.. You cannot construct a building using the limited number of products that have been tested.

I was the vice-chair of the USGBC's IEQ Technical Advisory Group (EQ TAGLEED Technical Advisory Group (TAG): Subcommittees that consist of industry experts who assist in developing credit interpretations and technical improvements to the LEED system.) when there were numerous attempts to force CA 01350 (Prop 65) into LEED. The then EQ TAG chair and I successfully stopped that from happening for several years. Both of use left the EQ TAG at about the same time while the one person trying to force feed 01350 into LEED remained.

With the IAQIndoor air quality: The quality and attributes of indoor air affecting the health and comfort building occupants. IAQ encompasses available fresh air, contaminant levels, acoustics and noise levels, lighting quality, and other factors. product expertise down to one person from three, the remaining "expert" was able to get 01350 shoved into LEED. It is mostly dead in LEED other than Healthcare.

01350 is an unfortunate standard. Rather than encourage use of low-emitting products it does the opposite.

As a strategy, use the LEED BD&C EQc4.1 requirements in your project specifications. Do the right thing and use low-VOC products. Accept you will not earn a LEED credit.

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Bruce Maine Sustainable Design Consultant Sep 18 2012 Guest 880 Thumbs Up

Thanks for your reply, Hernando. It would be equally as prudent for USGBC reviewers to post their resumes as have you....

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz Sep 24 2012 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

I wonder if a CIRCredit Interpretation Ruling. Used by design team members experiencing difficulties in the application of a LEED prerequisite or credit to a project. Typically, difficulties arise when specific issues are not directly addressed by LEED information/guide or LI wouldn't be a good idea. The titanium dioxide one is especially annoying. The FDA lets you eat it (whitener - tooth paste and candy canes) but California won't let you paint it on the walls. It makes no sense.

I'm sure we'll be discussing this in the next comment period for LEED v4.

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Dwayne Fuhlhage Sustainability and Environment Director, PROSOCO, Inc. Sep 24 2012 LEEDuser Member 1503 Thumbs Up

Bruce, you are correct in your assertion that Proposition 65 was designed as a tool to inform consumers; not a chemical ban or avoidance mechanism. While labeling should theoretically shame manufacturers into eliminating listed chemicals, the bounty hunter provision provides incentive to over warn. After all, every hotel in the state has a brass plaque stating the presence of Prop 65 chemicals.

The Prop 65 list includes over 700 chemicals, some of which are genuinely nasty at multiple levels of the production and value chain and need to go away. There are others where the hazard is only relevant to the potential for exposure. Such is the case with titanium dioxide and crystalline silica. However, there is also an ongoing discussion on what is meant by the precautionary principle. Do we mandate avoidance of 700 chemicals at every level, or do we use the REACH ECHA approach of evaluating each chemical in each product use pattern with a bias towards precaution?

As for the CalGreen defaults you mentioned, LEED V4 references both the CARBThe California Air Resources Board, part of the state government, is charged with maintaining clean air. This agency is unique at the state level: California was the only state that had such an agency before the passage of the federal Clean Air Act, and was allowed to keep it. 2007 SCM and SCAQMD Rule 1113 as the regulatory floor for interior coatings and the CARB 2007 SCM for Healthcare exteriors. The CARB 2007 SCM reference is consistent with CALGreen and the IgCC. We're trying to make sure specifiers don't get stuck in a situation where a LEED credit requirement would not conform to local code.

Disclosure: I represent a coating and sealant manufacturer, PROSOCO, and am the current subject matter expert for related topics in the LEED IEQ TAGLEED Technical Advisory Group (TAG): Subcommittees that consist of industry experts who assist in developing credit interpretations and technical improvements to the LEED system.. I've participated in discussions with NGOs on TSCA reform through the Consumer Specialty Products Association Chemicals Management Policy Team. I've also had the good fortune to represent my employer in helping pilot the Health Product Declaration.

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz Sep 28 2012 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

Thanks Dwayne. Your post is informed and informative as always. It still sounds like an LI needs to be issued to clarify the good intentions of LEED HC as it pertains to some items on the Prop 65 standard. The SIN list, Pharos and other lists may give some weight to alternative quantities for some items in Prop 65.

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Bruce Maine Sustainable Design Consultant
Aug 14 2012
Guest
880 Thumbs Up

EIFS and IEQ 4 - Group 5 Exterior Applied Products

Good afternoon. I'm stumped as usual. There seem to be no categories in 1113 or the ARB SCM which addresses the EIFS cementitous finishes. Sto has published a chart that identifes the VOC content of their EIFS products, including finish coats. Can someone provide some direction for this category?
Thanks in advance.

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Tristan Roberts LEED AP BD+C, Editorial Director – LEEDuser, BuildingGreen, Inc. Nov 23 2012 LEEDuser Moderator

Bruce, you posted several questions here that you haven't had help on. Sorry! AAre you still looking for answers on these, or have you moved on?

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Bruce Maine Sustainable Design Consultant Nov 23 2012 Guest 880 Thumbs Up

Good morning, Tristan. Hope you had a satisfying Thanksgiving. There's always enough on the table to fill a vegetarian's stomach like myself! For those interested in the sealantsA sealant has adhesive properties and is formulated primarily to fill, seal, or waterproof gaps or joints between 2 surfaces. Sealants include sealant primers and caulks. (SCAQMD Rule 1168. )Sealants are used on wood, fabric, paper, corrugated paperboard, plastic foam and other materials with tiny openings, often microscopic, that may absorb or discharge gas or fluid. issue, the single component polyurethanes seem not to be much of an issue whereas the multi-component polyurethanes are problematic. Silicone sealants pose no problems. Polyurethane adhesives, such as those used by Nora, don't pose a problem. In respect to IEQ 4 - Group 5, it would be nice if manufacturers just didn't claim compliance but specifically identified which SCAQMD or ARB SCM category was being referenced.

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Bruce Maine Sustainable Design Consultant
Aug 13 2012
Guest
880 Thumbs Up

IEQ 4 - Group 5, 1168 and SCM discrepancies

IEQ 4, Group 5 references both 1168 and the ARB SCM. However, not all references are equal. 1168 identifies non-Flats as 50 g/L and the SCM identifies non-Flats as 100 g/L. I don't believe there's any problem in citing the lower values but am I missing something here?
Thanks.

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Bruce Maine Sustainable Design Consultant
Jul 30 2012
Guest
880 Thumbs Up

Prop 65

Good morning. Armstrong's S-202 adhesive contains 4 percent carbon black. Prop 65 identifies the criteria for carbon black as being "airborne, unbound particles of respirable size". Since this issue effects many adhesives I'm curious if the caveat of "airborne, unbound particles of respirable size" applies.
Thanks for your technial advice.

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Bruce Maine Sustainable Design Consultant
Jul 03 2012
Guest
880 Thumbs Up

IEQ 4, Low-Emitting Materials – Group 2: Wall and Ceiling Finis

We have a master specification for an Acoustic Tile Restoration System. ProKote is the Base Manufacturer. Their products comply with VOC regs for coatings but I'm curious if in LEED for Healthcare, IEQ 4 - Group 2, would require existing acoustical tile systems to comply with the CDPH VOC protocol. The Reference Guide provided no information.
Thanks for your help.

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz Jul 05 2012 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

Assuming that this is the product that gets applied to existing ceiling tiles, I read it the same way you are, that this restoration system is a coating. I don't think it belongs in Group 2 because the ProKote is not the base products listed there. The ProKote isn't a ceiling tile all by itself; it needs the ceiling tile.

Glad you found the HC forum and hope to have you contributing.

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Bruce Maine Sustainable Design Consultant Jul 05 2012 Guest 880 Thumbs Up

Thanks, Susan. The ProKote product complies with the VOC requirements for a coating but I'm curoious if the existing ceiling tiles still need to meet the California Department of Public Health Standard. As a general rule we've used the ProKote product for purely aesthetic reasons. Normally I'd think this is an easy credit to achieve unless the manufacturer resists testing an older product and the Owner balks at the cost of new ceiling tiles.

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz Jul 05 2012 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

Usually, the products left in place don't figure into the credits and I think this is the same here. If you can claim it in MRc1, it has probably off-gassed all it is going to off-gas and you shouldn't have to worry about the existing materials. You may have to know how old those materials are in a design review response.

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James Chueh
Jun 13 2012
LEEDuser Member
944 Thumbs Up

IEQ c5

We are pursuing this credit which needs the mathematical modeling and/or physical modeling. Has anyone had the experience on this credit? If we are going to do the mathematical modeling with CFC, how detailed should the building be modeled and how detailed should the contaminants information be used to pursue this credit?

Any help and suggestions will be appreciated.

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Tristan Roberts LEED AP BD+C, Editorial Director – LEEDuser, BuildingGreen, Inc. Nov 23 2012 LEEDuser Moderator

James, sorry for the lack of response on this. If you are still looking for help I would recommend posting your question to the IEQc5 forum.

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Lee Dingemans LEED AP Wightman & Assoc.
Jun 04 2012
Guest
636 Thumbs Up

LEED HC IEQc8.2

What do I need to do to comply with IEQc8.2? I would like to earn 2 points but don’t understand the two threshold levels and how to comply too either one. My building is only 2,700 sf, is my building too small to qualify? Please let me know.

Thank you,

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz Jul 05 2012 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

Your project is not too small to qualify. But it probably is not an inpatient unit either. They give you 20 feet in that option to cover the depth of a patient sleep room and bring it back to 15 feet everywhere else. Follow the non-inpatient area guidelines and you may need to interpolate the point chart in the RG for a project your size.

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Simon S. SL+A International, Taipei
May 22 2012
LEEDuser Member
4604 Thumbs Up

MRc4.2 Copper Piping Joints

Per the LEED reference guide and LEEDonline signatory, copper piping joints can only be one of the following:
- mechanically crimped
- soldered in compliance to ASTMVoluntary standards development organization which creates source technical standards for materials, products, systems, and services B828 with flux in compliance to ASTM B813

According to the above, is brazing allowed (brazing is none of the above)?

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz May 23 2012 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

I believe that brazing is the process and solder is the material in the process. Does anyone know more about mechanical crimping? My questions to the plumbing engineers usually are answered with a 'we don't do that'. Is it a regional thing?

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Simon S. SL+A International, Taipei May 24 2012 LEEDuser Member 4604 Thumbs Up

Soldering happens at 450 degrees C or below while brazing happens above 450 degrees C. Both ASTMVoluntary standards development organization which creates source technical standards for materials, products, systems, and services B828 and ASTM B813 are only applicable to soldering.

We received similar answers on mechanical crimping as well. The concern seems to be on joint strength.

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz Jul 05 2012 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

Have you submitted this yet or called? I'm wondering if we aren't splitting hairs on the solder versus brazing. I've been rumbling this through my head and can't figure out a reason brazing isn't mentioned (and not allowed?) and it is in the MR section.

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Simon S. SL+A International, Taipei Jul 05 2012 LEEDuser Member 4604 Thumbs Up

Susan,

We received the following email from USGBC LEED HC Committee upon contact:

"Brazing is not addressed explicitly one way or the other by the Rating System Requirements. You could take this lack of instruction either way: 1- brazing is allowed b/c it is not explicitly disallowed, or 2- brazing is not specifically allowed, thus it is not allowed to be used in any copper joint applications when pursuing this credit.

However, if you look on page 191 of the LEED for Healthcare supplement it states: “Consider silver and other lead-free solder …”…so it is implied that the approach proposed in your inquiry (brazing w/silver) would be acceptable."

It is still not very clear how this complies with one of the two criteria, but brazing is allowed.

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz Jul 06 2012 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

Thanks for the update. I suspect this is an evolving understanding on their end as well as ours. I agree with you, the brazing is allowed.

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Emil Andersson Green Certification Coordinator Skanska Sweden
May 15 2012
Guest
376 Thumbs Up

Public transportation access - SSc4.1

Hi.

My LEED-HC project is placed on a campus where it will be physically connected to the existing hospital. At the main entrance of the larger campus hospital a large bus-stop line designated for the hospital is placed. Is it possible to count the main entrance of the campus hospital as a starting point for the measurements for the credit requirements? The users of the new construction can safely travel within the hospital area (since it is physically connected) to the main entrance and from there access the bus stop. However, the distance travelled within the building will be more than 200 yards.

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz May 23 2012 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

You can count the main entry for the bus credit as long as you can travel through the space unimpeded by special access requirements. Is there another main entry for your project?

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Emil Andersson Green Certification Coordinator , Skanska Sweden May 29 2012 Guest 376 Thumbs Up

Well, that depends on how we define the entrances. The project that we are certifying will have a separate entrance to the outdoors but this will not be used as a main entrance to the hospital area. The project will be connected to the main campus buildings where the main entrance to the hospital is situated. The patients visiting the LEED-building will normally go thru the main entrance but will always have the option of entering the LEED-building through its separate entrance. It is possible to unobstructed travel within the hospital through the main entrance to the LEED-project. In your opinion, do you still think that we are eligible for the credit since the bus stop is situated at the main entrance?

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz May 29 2012 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

I do think you are eligible. The majority of your visitors will go through the main entrance where the buses are closest.

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Joshua ADY Director Global Tech Safety & Environmental Consultancy
May 06 2012
LEEDuser Member
230 Thumbs Up

LEED HC Submission Portal

We have a Hospital Project that is ready for design submission and wanted to reconfirm if LEED HC design phase submission could be made on USGBC Portal. If not, any advise on when it would be ready is most appreciated.

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz May 29 2012 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

Did you call the GBCI? The run the LEED Online program and handle this sort of problem. Let us know what they say and congrats on getting a HC design submittal together already.

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Lisa Sawin
May 05 2012
LEEDuser Member
507 Thumbs Up

LEED NC vs. Healthcare

Our project is mostly office space but houses a program for mental health. The office space will be used for the program and serve as overflow offices from other parts of the Veterans Affairs Medical Campus that it resides on. We registered this project in the fall of 2011 under NC as at the time the office space outweighted the mental health program in terms of use. Do you think it is okay to keep it as New Construction Project it falls within the 40-60% area and was registered prior to the January 1, 2012 mandated switch to LEED Healthcare? Or will LEED determine after we submit that we will need to move it to healthcare? Anyone else come across this?

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz May 08 2012 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

Lisa, scroll down. Susan

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect Wilmot/Sanz
May 03 2012
LEEDuser Expert
14010 Thumbs Up

MPR 2 and LEED HC MRc6

LEED HC allows for the inclusion of 5% of DGSF as shelled space. How does this reconcile with MPR #2 'must be a whole building'? How do you publish LEED HC and not give project teams a work around or acknowledge the inconsistency?

I've read LI #10101 and #10102. Letter of Commitment, check. Account for it in EAp2, check.

Originally posted in MPR 2 forum. I'm struggling with MPR 2 as it applies to large construction and renovation projects in existing Hospitals.

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Denise Thompson Jul 13 2012 Guest 12 Thumbs Up

I also have the same question and don't seem to see a resonse. Similarly, Does anyone know where a Letter of Commitment example may be? I wrote one from scratch but want to make sure I have everything covered.

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Hernando Miranda Owner, Soltierra LLC Oct 04 2012 Guest 7080 Thumbs Up

This is what happened to a project LEED certified in May 2012 using LEED NC (BD+C)

The project was entirely new construction.

Over 90% was owner-occupied and entirely finished. LEED NC.

Less than 10% was Shell. LEED CS. The spaces would be retail lease.

The NC part was documented entirely using NC rules.

The CS part was fit into LEED NC for all NC credits claimed. This meant:

Worst Case occupancy calculated based on ASHRAE 62.1 defaults (EQp1 basis). Worst case meaning the highest level of occupancy for any type of retail use, including medical leasing. Use as conference rooms was not used as the worst case.

SS Credit Group 4: Used Worst Case occupancy.

WE Credit 3: Used Worst Case occupancy.

EA Prereq 2: Claimed HVAC and envelop efficiencies but used Zero efficiency for lighting. Because the lease space would need to meet newer, and more stringent, code lighting LPDs we assumed the newer LPDs as as the Zero efficiency set point.

EQ Prereq 1: Used Worst Case occupancy for CS spaces.

EQ Credit Group 3: Included the unfinished spaces in both credits.

The above shows compliance as a "whole building" by integrating CS into NC. Only what was within the scope-of-work was included, meaning the CS spaces were not let out.

BUT, the LEED reviewer insisted, incorrectly, that "whole building" meant LEED CI must be integrated into LEED NC + CS projects. IN other words, work outside the scope needed to be LEED compliant.

The GBCI clarifying what they wanted were toothless, non-binding, non-mandatory, Green Tenant Guidelines with the owner committing to giving the guidelines to future tenants.

What the above means is that the LEED CS optional credit for Green Tenant Guidelines were a HARD requirement for any LEED NC project that includes any amount of CS space, no matter how small the percentage. This also means that a LEED NC + CS project cannot provide Green Tenant Guidelines and earn a LEED NC Innovation point. Innovation points cannot be earned for HARD LEED requirements.

If you try to figure out where mixing LEED NC, CS and CI together is required by LEED you will never find it. The LEED 60/40 rules telling you to follow one rating system when you have a mixed rating system project. Nowhere in LEED is there any discussion of mixing two rating systems together, let alone three.

I can image case where four, even five rating systems should be mixed into one project: NC + CS + CI (lease office) + CI-Retail (lease retail) + Healthcare (lease medical). Unfortunately, unless the GBCI provides clear rules, that do no change on a daily basis, LEED projects will need to consider the worst case senario for certifying a project at the space level and not at the whole building level.

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz Oct 04 2012 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

It seems consistent to me that LEED requires green 'tenant' guidelines when you have a shelled space and that they would not grant an innovation credit for doing this, especially in the HC program. I do find it ironic that a building with 100% ownership would need to draft a 'tenant' document to tell them how to build out their own space. I would have liked to see LEED be more descriptive on how to deal with this 5% allowable shell space in HC.

Overall, your approach to dealing with your shelled space seems very appropriate and inclusive to the shell space in a conservative manner. What did the reviewer want you to change?

MPR 2 in a Hospital renovation project is a problem.

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Hernando Miranda Owner, Soltierra LLC Oct 04 2012 Guest 7080 Thumbs Up

The reviewer wanted hard requirements for WE Plumbing Fixtures efficiency, and EQ Construction IAQIndoor air quality: The quality and attributes of indoor air affecting the health and comfort building occupants. IAQ encompasses available fresh air, contaminant levels, acoustics and noise levels, lighting quality, and other factors. Testing, Prior to Occupancy.

Their claimed concern was that "if" the tenants installed non-efficient plumbing fixture that the claim made for WE Plumbing Fixtures efficiency would be incorrect. It didn't matter that the base building included water closet, urinals and lavatory faucets that provided the efficiency claims, and that kitchen sinks were not efficient in the base building. We still had to specify in the Tenant Guidelines that match the base building equipment efficiencies. Maybe a kitchen sink would be installed. If a dental office was a leasee most of their would be exempt as process waterProcess water is used for industrial processes and building systems such as cooling towers, boilers, and chillers. It can also refer to water used in operational processes, such as dishwashing, clothes washing, and ice making..

What was funny about the above is that because the WE efficiency was based on a version of LEED that could no longer be used, the TI guidelines would specify non-current code compliant fixtures.

For the EQ Construction IAQ credit, even though the lease spaces were included as a consideration using the testing option, the reviewers wanted a hard test done after the lease spaces were finished. At the time of certification the spaces were not leased. Still, why require testing twice?

The GBCI stood by the reviewers and required the Green Green Tenant Guidelines, but did allow the requirements to be optional for the tenant rather than must be done.

If you are following along, the green tenant guidelines required by the reviewers were not consistent with what good tenants should be: address "current" codes and LEED rating systems. Green Tenant guidelines that match a base building referring to out of date codes and discontinued LEED rating systems are worthless documents, in my opinion because there is nothing green about them.

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Hernando Miranda Owner, Soltierra LLC Oct 08 2012 Guest 7080 Thumbs Up

S. W. wrote: "It seems consistent to me that LEED requires green 'tenant' guidelines when you have a shelled space.."

I wanted to clarify why the requirement is not consistent. The project questioned was Healthcare using LEED NC v2.2. The project was registered in 2005, and certified in 2012.

The demanded Tenant Guidelines need to reflect the requirements of NC v2.2 and not current code, or current versions of LEED CI.

The above results in tenant green guidelines that are worthless. Current code is not complied with. A tenant could not earn a LEED CI rating following the guidelines because a prerequisite would not be met.

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz Oct 08 2012 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

Argh. Reply was eaten by Spot, the internet monster lurking in my hard drive!

What I was trying to clarify was that Tenant Guidelines in HC should not be worth an innovation credit. When you build in the allowance for shell space, you have to plan for how this space will be built out - voila, guidelines. It also seems to me that the RG should have spelled out the situation that you describe due to the long life spans of the typical healthcare project.

It also seems to me that if your project chooses to tie themselves to a stricter standard or even the code current at time of tenant fit out, that you should be allowed to do that without pearl clutching on the reviewer's behalf. Plumbing fixtures are easy. Energy modelling and air flows are harder.

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Hernando Miranda Owner, Soltierra LLC Oct 08 2012 Guest 7080 Thumbs Up

Beware of this retroactive and contradictory requirement for guidelines for unfinished spaces in any LEED project.

The MPRs are contradictory. Worse, although a guideline requirement was added on 11/01/2011, the requirement is being enforced on all LEED projects regardless of date of registration, and regardless of the rating system version used.

The LEED reviewers required compliance for a NC v2.2 project registered in 2005 with an MPR created in late 2011 for LEED 2009 projects.

Per MPR 1, from supplemental guide v2 dated 09/10/2011.

"Special consideration for projects with unfinished spaces:
For projects with unfinished spaces (typically, LEED-CS projects), interior fit-out work conducted post-certification is NOT subject to this MPR unless strategies implemented in the fit-out space contribute to earned prerequisites or credits for that project via the tenant sales and lease agreement or owner letter of commitment path."

MPR 1 exempts unfinished spaces if the spaces are not used to make LEED claims for work not done by the owner.

To make matters more interesting, MPR 2, via a LEED InterpretationLEED Interpretations are official answers to technical inquiries about implementing LEED on a project. They help people understand how their projects can meet LEED requirements and provide clarity on existing options. LEED Interpretations are to be used by any project certifying under an applicable rating system. All project teams are required to adhere to all LEED Interpretations posted before their registration date. This also applies to other addenda. Adherence to rulings posted after a project registers is optional, but strongly encouraged. LEED Interpretations are published in a searchable database at usgbc.org., not via a document amendment contradicts MRP 1. The full, and long, text is copied below.

LI #10102: MPR#2: Published 11/1/2011:

"Mandatory for all projects with incomplete spaces: All projects containing incomplete spaces must be accompanied by a Letter of Commitment, signed by the Owner, indicating that the remaining incomplete spaces will satisfy the requirements of each prerequisite and credit achieved by this project if and when completed by the Owner. This letter may cover the commitment in general terms and need not address each prerequisite or credit individually. It should be uploaded along with a brief narrative of the project's special circumstances in the Additional Details section of Project Information Form 1 in LEED Online v3. For credits and prerequisites with established baselines, such as WEp1 and EAp2 (performance path only), and the other credits dependent upon the calculations in these two prerequisites, the proposed (i.e. design) case must be held equivalent to the baseline for the incomplete spaces. For all other prerequisites and credits, project teams may either demonstrate that the present LEED project's scope of work is sufficient to satisfy the requirements for the incomplete space(s), or indicate that the Letter of Commitment ensures that future fit-outs by the LEED project Owner will comply with these requirements. Future fit-outs by Tenants (i.e., parties other than the Owner) are not bound by this Letter of Commitment.

"Additional requirement for projects with incomplete spaces that are intended for future fit-out by Tenants: In addition to the mandatory requirements described above, any project containing incomplete space(s) intended to be fit-out by Tenants (i.e. parties other than the Owner) must be accompanied by a set of non-binding Tenant Design and Construction Guidelines. Criteria for acceptable Tenant Design and Construction Guidelines can be found in the LEED 2009 Reference Guide for Green Building Design and Construction, in the section for LEED Core and Shell SS Credit 9: Tenant Design and Construction Guidelines. These guidelines must provide project-specific strategies and information concerning how the future fit-out of the space can fulfill the LEED for Commercial Interiors rating systems and how the future fit-out of the space can fulfill the requirements of prerequisites and credits achieved by the completed portions of the project. These guidelines should also be uploaded as documentation of Special Circumstances in the Additional Details section of Project Information Form 1 in LEED Online. No Innovation in Design points will be awarded for providing these guidelines.

"It is understood that in some cases the Owner will not be certain about whether the incomplete space(s) in the LEED project will be fit-out by the Owner or a Tenant. In the special circumstances narrative for Project Information Form 1, the project team must explain the basis for their assumptions about who will be fitting-out the incomplete space and then provide the appropriate supplemental documentation as per the requirements above."

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Hernando Miranda Owner, Soltierra LLC Oct 08 2012 Guest 7080 Thumbs Up

Also of interest, is that the LEED v2.2 Healthcare project, required to comply with a v2009 MPR, was submitted for certification during February 2011. The tenant guidelines for MPR 2, via the LEED InterpretationLEED Interpretations are official answers to technical inquiries about implementing LEED on a project. They help people understand how their projects can meet LEED requirements and provide clarity on existing options. LEED Interpretations are to be used by any project certifying under an applicable rating system. All project teams are required to adhere to all LEED Interpretations posted before their registration date. This also applies to other addenda. Adherence to rulings posted after a project registers is optional, but strongly encouraged. LEED Interpretations are published in a searchable database at usgbc.org., were invented after the project was submitted, and after the project was reviewed.

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emily reese Sustainability Consultant / Facility Planner Jacobs Engineering
Apr 26 2012
LEEDuser Member
451 Thumbs Up

Using MR Cr 5 as an ID point for LEED-NC v2.2

We are currently evaluating attempting MR Cr 5 from the Healthcare track for use as an ID point under LEED v2.2. Our project is a 6-building campus approach for a Mental Health Rehabilitation Center.
Under the Healthcare track, a project would earn 1 point for having 30% of their furnishings meet the criteria of the point, and 2 points for 40%. Based on most other similar point setups, I'm guessing a project would be eligible for an exemplary point if they were able to hit 50% (possibly 60%)or more.
Since we will be using it as an ID point, does that mean that we would only be eligible to earn 1 point, no matter what % we were able to meet? We're still evaluating, but are currently estimating over 50%.

Also, how would we go about getting the full requirements from the reference guide for just this one credit without having to purchase the whole guide? How can we get the normal template, too?

Any guidance is appreciated, as I have not attempted a credit from a different LEED version for an ID point before.

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz Apr 26 2012 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

First, you can get forms for LEED HC and other LEED programs here: http://www.usgbc.org/DisplayPage.aspx?CMSPageID=1447. When you download them, there are two versions of the pdf forms and the 'dya' form is more dynamic in that when you selection option 1, only the option 1 drop downs are shown. The second form shows all the form options. It isn't fully functional but it is close.

As for the RG, i would recommend spending the $100 for the HC supplement. The RG has a great example on how to fill out this form. Based on what I see in those LO forms above, I never would have filled out the forms correctly without having read the RG. If you go ahead without the HC supplement, my advice is to track all furniture across all options and see where you are.

As for the ID credit, my assumption is the same as your. Your project would need to earn 30% to get the point. I do not believe that you would have to get to the 50%. The ID credits I've attempted from other programs did not have graduated point thresholds like this one does. It may be worth a clarifying call to the GBCI. Let us know what you find.

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Emil Andersson Green Certification Coordinator Skanska Sweden
Apr 12 2012
Guest
376 Thumbs Up

New addenda

April 2012 addenda issued for LEED HC:

http://www.usgbc.org/DisplayPage.aspx?CMSPageID=2200#BD+C

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz Apr 12 2012 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

Thanks, Emil!

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz Apr 26 2012 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

In case you were sweating out all the changes with this supplement, you can relax. They only modified the requirements for EAc5, Measurement and Verification. Essentially you can meet MPR 6 through Option 1 (Energy Star's Portfolio Manage).

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James Chueh
Apr 10 2012
LEEDuser Member
944 Thumbs Up

Motors that should be covered by 90.1 efficiency requirement

Hi

Are the motors in the system below need to comply with 90.1 min efficiency requirement?

1. Compressed air system: used in main components such as dehumidification equipments, filtration equipments, and conveying chute etc.

The medical use of above compressed air system is mainly for aspirator, anaesthetic (low pressure compressed air) and special equipment such as linear accelerator.

The compressed air system is a stand-along system, not an integral part of the medical equipments mentioned above.

2. VAC vacuum pump system: used for excretion of patient's phlegm, body fluid and blood etc in the operation room.

Again, VAC system is a stand-along system, not an integral part of the medical equipments mentioned above.

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Emil Andersson Green Certification Coordinator Skanska Sweden
Mar 06 2012
Guest
376 Thumbs Up

WEc4.2

Hi.
The credit language states that projects without cooling towers are ineligible for this credit. But if a project has cooling towers for the purpose of pre-cooling the refrigerant without utilizing water (only fan cooling), is the project still eligible for the credit?

Kindly
Emil Andersson

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james moler, p.e. mgr systems engineering, turner healthcare Apr 13 2012 Guest 482 Thumbs Up

Emil, you seem to be describing an air cooled condenser - usually finned refrigerant coils with fans to circulate air over the coil. The unit condenses refrigerant gas to liquid. Since no water is used in the process, the project would ineligible for this water conservation credit.

There is a form of condenser that uses a water spray over the refrigerant coil - an evaporative condenser. Although not strictly a "cooling tower" I would argue that there is justification for awarding WEc4.2 if the requirements are met.

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James Chueh
Mar 05 2012
LEEDuser Member
944 Thumbs Up

LEED HC EA c7

This credit is about airborne releases and the intent is to prevent contaminant releases to air from products of combustion. If we have no products of combustion for this project, could we pursue this credit?

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz Apr 12 2012 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

You have no emergency power generators? What are you using to heat/cool the structure? What are you doing for water heating? Where are you doing the laundry? I'd be very surprised if you didn't have some form of combustion engine and that one should put you into the credit. If you have an innovative approach to avoiding combustion, then you either have an ID credit or an approach that you should file a CIRCredit Interpretation Ruling. Used by design team members experiencing difficulties in the application of a LEED prerequisite or credit to a project. Typically, difficulties arise when specific issues are not directly addressed by LEED information/guide to confirm that you are in the credit. Let us know more about your design solutions, my curiosity is piqued.

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James Chueh Jun 13 2012 LEEDuser Member 944 Thumbs Up

Susan, thanks for the replying.
We have a boiler for water heating. I am just curious if this credit could be pursued as WE c4.3.

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Simon S. SL+A International, Taipei
Mar 02 2012
LEEDuser Member
4604 Thumbs Up

Defining Casework/Millwork (MRc6, IEQc4, MRc5)

For a current project we would like to clarify how LEED defines casework/millwork across multiple credits:

If we would like to pursue MRc6: Design for Flexibility, using the last option "use movable/modular casework for a minimum of 50% of casework and custom millwork"
- How do we define "movable/modular"? Do they need to be movable, modular, or both?
- Can these be affixed to a wall?

- Would "movable/modular" casework be included within the base building credits because it is still casework - for example, as a part of IEQc4, Group 4: Composite WoodComposite wood consists of wood or plant particles or fibers bonded by a synthetic resin or binder. Examples include particleboard, medium-density fiberboard (MDF), plywood, oriented-strand board (OSB), wheatboard, and strawboard., Agrifiber ProductsAgrifiber products are made from agricultural fiber. Examples include particleboard, medium-density fiberboard (MDF), plywood, oriented-strand board (OSB), wheatboard, and strawboard.?

- OR would "moveable/modular" casework be included within the Furniture and Furnishings credits because it is "freestanding" - for example, as a part of MRc5: Furniture and Medical Furnishings?

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james moler, p.e. mgr systems engineering, turner healthcare Mar 02 2012 Guest 482 Thumbs Up

Simon asks a multi-layered question. Each of the credits have a different intent so it is possible for the same component to contribute to achievement in multiple credits. For MR c6 Flexibility, components of a furniture system that includes work surfaces, storage and filing units and partitions that can be rearranged is considered a modular system. If some of those storage and work surface components are on wheels, they are considered moveable. Moveable doesn't have to be on wheels, it just makes it easier! If you can pick it up an move it with a hand truck or dolly, it is moveable. The line between moveable and modular is pretty fuzzy and is more related to interchangeability in a system than size or weight. For MR c5 these same components would be considered eligible because they can contribute to achieving the options. They are not "built-in" and therefore are not included in MR c3 as "base building" components. The moveable/modular components do not contribute to IEQ c4 because they are not "base building" components, they are FF&E.

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz Mar 02 2012 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

To add to Jim's great response, I would caution you on using modular wood based cabinets; you would also have to look at how they contribute to MRc7 Certified WoodWood from a source that has been determined, through a certification process, to meet stated ecological and other criteria. There are numerous forest certification programs in general use based on several standards, but only the Forest Stewardship Council's standards, which include requirements that the wood be tracked through its chain-of-custody, can be used to qualify wood for a point in the LEED Rating System. and IEQc4.4 Low Emitting Materials. The classification of built in versus modular is a key component to the MR credit calculations and your LEED strategy.

In general, we use metal cabinets or cabinets made by the furniture manufacturers for anything that will be moved before a space is remodelled. We use custom cabinets where we do not expect the owner will move them prior to a remodel. To me this is the difference. For example, the modular cabinets in a Staff Lounge may not want to be classified as moveable even though they could be moved. The fact is that they are going to be installed and left there until a remodel happens and then they will be removed but not reused (because they will have been beaten to death). This is true of other places that use modular cabinetry but where it is not moveable.

I think as this program gets rolling that the reviewers will start to make this distinguishment and we will get better clarity.

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Simon S. SL+A International, Taipei Mar 04 2012 LEEDuser Member 4604 Thumbs Up

James, Susan,

Thank you for your responses. For further clarification:

We are planning to use modular casework from a local vendor (similar to example shown here: http://www.neocase.com/). Our cabinets will all be anchored to a wall (not on wheels), but have been designed in individual cabinet modules for flexibility in future relocation so that the modules are reconfigurable. Per the credit intent "to conserve resources associated with the construction and management of buildings by designing for flexibility and ease of future adaptation...," we are under the impression that the intent is to provide in advance for future renovations. Because these are reconfigurable units of a large casework system that can be moved or reallocated throughout the project space, we are considering them movable.

Based on Jason's response, we would still classify these casework modules as movable, though not on wheels, but it is still slightly unclear as to whether or not these would be considered built-in aka base building components, or FF&E.

We are still finalizing the material selection for the casework construction (metal, MDFMedium-density fiberboard (MDF): Panel product used in cabinets and furniture; generally made from wood fiber glued together with binder; similar to particleboard, but with finer texture, offering more precise finishing. Most MDF is made with formaldehyde-emitting urea-formaldehyde binder., plastic, etc.) and are concerned about whether or not it must comply with IEQc4, Group 4, as well --- which as we understand it, is only applicable if the casework is still considered "base building" elements, rather than FF&E.

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Mike Barker Principal : Energy / Electrical Engineer BuildingPhysics South Africa
Mar 02 2012
LEEDuser Member
1413 Thumbs Up

How to buy the HC Reference Guide ?

I can't find where to buy the Healthcare Reference Guide - it's just not listed on the website ? I must be doing something wrong ?

I can find the "LEED Reference Guide for Building Design & Construction - Healthcare" and have bought that so long.

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james moler, p.e. mgr systems engineering, turner healthcare Mar 02 2012 Guest 482 Thumbs Up

"LEED Reference Guide for Building Design & Construction - Healthcare" is the reference guide for projects seeking certification under LEED - HC.

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Mike Barker Principal : Energy / Electrical Engineer, BuildingPhysics South Africa Mar 04 2012 LEEDuser Member 1413 Thumbs Up

Thanks James, i see i need to read the "LEED Reference Guide for Building Design & Construction - Healthcare" in conjunction with the NC 2009 Reference.

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Elizabeth Powers Principal O'Brien & Company
Mar 01 2012
LEEDuser Member
450 Thumbs Up

MRc5, Furniture and Medical Furnishings

I have a couple of questions under this credit and would greatly appreciate any feedback LEED User members might have.

Question #1: The credit states that "all freestanding furniture and medical furnishings, including mattresses, foams, panel fabrics, cubicle curtains, window coverings, and other textiles"...must comply with the one of the three options listed. My question is about the definition of "medical furnishings." Would a power exam table be considered a medical furnishing or a piece of medical equipment?

Question #2: In the Credit Requirements, it states that "build-in casework and built-in millwork items must be included in the base building calculations, even if manufactured offsite." BUT under the Calculations section of the same credit, it states that "built-in millwork and casework must be included in MRc3 under the base building calculations; it is excluded from MRc5." Can anyone make sense of this discrepancy?

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Simon S. SL+A International, Taipei Mar 02 2012 LEEDuser Member 4604 Thumbs Up

In answer to Question #2:
LEED attempts to separate *base building elements* from **non-base building elements** by addressing the two categories under separate credits.

Under MRc3, anything considered a part of the *base building* (ex: casework and millwork) should be included in MRc3 calculations; **non-base building elements** (ie Furniture or Furnishings that are Division 12 items) should be excluded.

Under MRc5, anything considered to be a **non-base building element** (ex: Division 12 items - Furniture and Furnishings) should be included in MRc5 calculations, the reference guide is letting you know that those *base building elements* (ex: casework and millwork) will be excluded, because the credit is addressing only Furniture and Medical Furnishings (Division 12 items), ie **non-base building elements**.

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james moler, p.e. mgr systems engineering, turner healthcare Mar 02 2012 Guest 482 Thumbs Up

First question is easy; the power exam table is movable medical equipment.
Second question is more challenging. Even though the statements appear to conflict, they are complementary. Built-ins are not eligible for consideration to achieve the 30% or 40% threshold for MR c5 because they are not "furniture and medical furnishings." The requirement directs users to account for millwork as base building. The calculation directs users not to use millwork as furniture and furnishings. Sometimes emphasizing a point introduces ambiguity!

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz Mar 02 2012 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

Do be careful on excluding any Div 12 built in casework. See other conversations in the NC board (MRc5, 7) regarding inclusion of Div 12 items in MR credits. The reviewers aren't kind when you try to hide things in Div 12.

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Hernando Miranda Owner, Soltierra LLC Oct 04 2012 Guest 7080 Thumbs Up

Do not hide built-in casework in Division 12.

I have run into unscrupulous architects, contractors and LEED consultants who try to get away with that.

In one ugly case, the case work hidden in Div 12 was laboratory casework that was 95% of the value for all the installed casework. The Div 12 casework was: bolted to the floor, was hard wired, was hard plumbed, had flooring cutout to fit around the base, included flooring base. A permanent installation.

I was the LEED consultant for the owner. The LEED consultant I did battle with was hired by the general contractor and represented the GC's interest, not the owner's. The reason the battle got ugly was the GC had intention of paying for certified woodWood from a source that has been determined, through a certification process, to meet stated ecological and other criteria. There are numerous forest certification programs in general use based on several standards, but only the Forest Stewardship Council's standards, which include requirements that the wood be tracked through its chain-of-custody, can be used to qualify wood for a point in the LEED Rating System. for the lab casework.

The architect --one that claims a high level of LEED expertise-- decided not to include FSCIndependent, third-party verification that forest products are produced and sold based on a set of criteria for forest management and chain-of-custody controls developed by the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC), an international nonprofit organization. FSC criteria for certifying forests around the world address forest management, legal issues, indigenous rights, labor rights, multiple benefits, and environmental impacts. spec language in Div 12 for the lab casework because they decided it all lab casework belonged in DIV 12 and therefore was furniture, regardless if it was actually permanently built-in construction.

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James Chueh
Feb 21 2012
LEEDuser Member
944 Thumbs Up

Sample form of LEED HC IEQ c2

Hi all,

When I look into the sample form downloaded from LEED ONLINE, the "Table IEQc2-4. Exterior Equipment" asks the maximum exterior equipment sound should be less than 55dBA.(The exterior site noise exposure category is C.) The maximum exterior equipment sound means the design goal for hospital nighttime exterior equipment sound described in table 1.4-1 of SV Design Guidelines. But the site exterior noise implementation of LEED reference book said "Implement controls on exterior MEP equipment and systems to reduce sound levels at building facades to 65 dBA or less, and 70 dBA for emergency power equipment.". Which one should I follow to pursue the credit? Should I still consider the implementation since the form doesn't ask for it?

Thanks for any help and suggestion.

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Simon S. SL+A International, Taipei
Feb 13 2012
LEEDuser Member
4604 Thumbs Up

LEED HC WEc4.1 - Vacuum Pumps

A very specific medical equipment in our project building uses oil-sealed rotary vacuum pump as primary pump and dry vacuum pump as secondary pump. The credit requirement mandates all vacuum pumps to be dry (no oil). However, this would change the design of the medical equipment and possibly have performance impact, not mentioning additional costs and the capability of dry vacuum pump.

1. Dry vacuum pumps have advantages such as maintenance free and contamination free, but is there any more critical intent of this requirement as this is listed in a "Water Use Reduction" credit?

2. Can specific medical equipment be exempted from this credit requirement?

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james moler, p.e. mgr systems engineering, turner healthcare Mar 02 2012 Guest 482 Thumbs Up

An oil sealed vacuum pump meets the credit intent to "reduce or eliminate the use of potable waterPotable water meets or exceeds EPA's drinking water quality standards and is approved for human consumption by the state or local authorities having jurisdiction; it may be supplied from wells or municipal water systems. for non-potable use in building service equipment." Oil-lubricated liquid ring vacuum pumps are specifcally permitted as sources for vacuum sterilizers. The authors may have placed the limitation on the oil sealed equipment due to the prevalence of using the medical vacuum system for waste anesthesia gas disposal in healthcare. There have been cases of vacuum pump fires in oil lubricated vacuum pumps used for WAGD.

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Emil Andersson Green Certification Coordinator Skanska Sweden
Feb 10 2012
Guest
376 Thumbs Up

LEED HC IEQp1

Hi.
I am looking into certifying a Healthcare facility in Sweden with LEED for Healthcare. The preliminary design of the project building does not include dehumidification of the HVAC system, does this mean that I won’t be able to certify? Or are there any circumstances where the humidity factors in ASHRAE 170 can be discarded?

Kindly
Emil Andersson

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz Feb 10 2012 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

Emil,

You may want to check out the Alternative Compliance discussions going on in International Projects and talk to Veronika Sundberg also from Skanska. She is a regular on these boards. The humidity issue is something that is likely US focused and is embedded in our regulations. The alternative compliance pathways would likely be your best bet. I doubt that you can completely discard humidity factors. You may also want to contact GBCI for additional guidance. I'm betting your project will be the first LEED HC project to use this kind of compliance path.

S

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james moler, p.e. mgr systems engineering, turner healthcare Mar 02 2012 Guest 482 Thumbs Up

The ranges for humidity in ASHRAE 170 are pretty broad and it may be possible to show that in the local climate, humidity within the building will be within the required range for all but exceptional weather conditions. The inquiry mentions dehumidification is not provided. The upper limit in Table 7.1 is 60%RH for most spaces. If the prelliminary design meets the air change rates and temperatrure ranges in the standard, it is likely that the humidity will also be within the specified range. Typically the lower limit is the challenge - during cold winter months. A recent addendum to Standard 170 reduces the lower limit to 20% - a level that is generally achievable in most cold climates without added moisture if the ventilation system uses recirculating air or enthalpy exchange energy recovery ventilation systems. People, meals, showers, cleaning activity adds moisture to the building and a fairly tight envelope retains it. Losses are from air exchange and a 100% OA once through ventilation system requires energy recovery under the LEED EA pr2 Minimum Energy Performance.

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Simon S. SL+A International, Taipei
Feb 09 2012
LEEDuser Member
4604 Thumbs Up

LEED-HC MRc4.2 - Wire & Cable Lead Content <300ppm

In regards to the following statement, as part of the MRc4.2 requirements:
"Specify and use electrical wire and cable with lead content <300ppm" (pg. 189)

1. Can anyone provide additional clarification as to the scope of this statement? For example, would electrical wire and cable include the following:
- CCTV / CAT-5 wiring
- Telecommunications wiring
- Building Security System wiring
- Fire Alarm System wiring
- Medical equipment wiring, internal, external

2. What is the best method of documentation? Does a product labeled as "100% lead free" comply, or is a cut sheet specifying the exact ppm of lead required? In instances where the cut sheet does not include lead content information, will a signed letter from the manufacturer suffice?

3. "Lead used for radiation shieldingShielding is a nontechnical term that describes devices or techniques that are used as part of a luminaire or lamp to limit glare, light trespass, or sky glow. and copper used for MRI shielding are exempt from the requirements of this credit" (pg. 189) - Does this include both in construction (ex: walls) and also inside medical equipment (ex: large scale equipment that may contain lead within)?

4. "Some equipment, such as relay contacts, may have minute amounts of hidden cadmiumA naturally-occurring element and source of pigments that were once a staple in paints, but now is largely phased out in architectural coatings except for certain specialty products. High exposure to cadmium can cause a variety of health problems, including kidney damage.; these uses are allowed" - Definition of 'minute amounts'/quantity of cadmium that is permissible?

Any additional insight would be greatly appreciated.

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz Feb 10 2012 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

Great questions! In general, i would say that medical equipment is outside the questions you are asking. You can't control these decisions as a A/E professional.
1. I would think that the CAT5, Telecom, Security and Fire Alarm wiring would also need to be compliant. However, I do think you would have a case for not including these items. Frankly, I can argue this one either way so let us know how this turns out.
2. Usually documentation is either a cut sheet, product data or a signed letter. Since this is new, the manufacturer's will need to update their data sheets.
3. Yes. A lot of radiology equipment is self shieldingShielding is a nontechnical term that describes devices or techniques that are used as part of a luminaire or lamp to limit glare, light trespass, or sky glow..
4.I took this to acknowledge the heavy metal exists in these items and that there isn't much one can do about it. When you have a choice, specify the lower level or put a specific threshold in your spec.

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james moler, p.e. mgr systems engineering, turner healthcare Mar 02 2012 Guest 482 Thumbs Up

1. All wire and cable. The only exemption would be if a specific type of wire or cable is not available in a compliant form and an alternative is not available.
2. Any of the forms is acceptable.
3. The credit does not concern itself with medical equipment - only building uses. See the pilot credit library for opportunities related to medical equipment.
4. CadmiumA naturally-occurring element and source of pigments that were once a staple in paints, but now is largely phased out in architectural coatings except for certain specialty products. High exposure to cadmium can cause a variety of health problems, including kidney damage. is only mentioned in relation to paints and coatings in the credit requirements. Other use is not a factor in the review of the credit application - although designers should not use it in applications where another material is equally effective. Lots of screws and bolts are cadmium plated and that use is never mentioned in the LEED Systems.

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James Chueh
Feb 08 2012
LEEDuser Member
944 Thumbs Up

EQp1

I have a small question regarding ASHRAE standard 170-2008.

On page 5, Table 6-1 which specifies what type of filter to be used within a health care facility, according to the different uses of spaces, and it states that "Inpatient care, treatment, and diagnosis, and those spaces....." should have a MERVMinimum efficiency reporting value. 7 filter on the first filter bank, and MERV 14 on the second filter bank.

My question is does it means "Inpatient care, treatment, and diagnosis" as one type of space, or "Inpatient care", "treatment", and "diagnosis" as three separate types?

The reason I want to ask this is because we are doing a LEED HC project at the moment, but there will be no inpatient, only outpatient in the facility, so depends on the interpretation of this table, it will have very different impact on our project.

Your help on this will be very much appreciated, cheers.

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz Feb 08 2012 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

Not having the ASHRAE standard handy, I would think that the phrase is to be considered as one type of space covering things like patient rooms (inpatient care), procedure rooms (treatment), and Ultrasound (diagnosis). The odd thing to me is that the ASHRAE standard is lower than the FGI standard which is double filtered air (each filter being equivalent to MERVMinimum efficiency reporting value. 15).

Looking at the HC reference guide, it says to follow the ASHRAE standard AND for mechanically ventilated areas to also follow the 2010 FGI Guidelines. LEED has a policy of following the more stringent guideline.

But you are doing an Outpatient facility which in the US is normally a Use Group B function. I suspect that in your case, the ASHRAE standard is more stringent that the FGI Guidelines. Consider the type of outpatient services that are being provided, the patient population and implement a solution that protects those needs. You may have an AHU1.Air-handling units (AHUs) are mechanical indirect heating, ventilating, or air-conditioning systems in which the air is treated or handled by equipment located outside the rooms served, usually at a central location, and conveyed to and from the rooms by a fan and a system of distributing ducts. (NEEB, 1997 edition) 2.A type of heating and/or cooling distribution equipment that channels warm or cool air to different parts of a building. This process of channeling the conditioned air often involves drawing air over heating or cooling coils and forcing it from a central location through ducts or air-handling units. Air-handling units are hidden in the walls or ceilings, where they use steam or hot water to heat, or chilled water to cool the air inside the ductwork. that follows the MERV 7/14 in a outpatient surgical suite but another area may be a basic doctor's office that would have a different system.

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james moler, p.e. mgr systems engineering, turner healthcare Feb 08 2012 Guest 482 Thumbs Up

Table 6-1 permits a single filter bank of MERVMinimum efficiency reporting value. 7 efficiency for "All other outpatient spaces." However, the FGI Guidelines - also referenced in the EQ pr1 requirements have additional filter requirements for certain special spaces within chapter 3 Ambulatory Care Facilities

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Lee Dingemans LEED AP Wightman & Assoc.
Jan 17 2012
Guest
636 Thumbs Up

LEED NC or HC?

6,000 sf existing LEED NC V2.2 certified.
3,000 sf (Max) addition
The entire existing building and proposed addition is a outpatient healthcare operation. I don’t know if it is licensed or not. We want the addition to be LEED certified as well. At this point we the best approach to this is to only certify the addition and leave the existing alone. We should be able to do this since the mechanical systems are separate from the existing, etc. Do I use LEED NC or LEED HC or do I have a choice (we are past the Jan 1 2012 date)?

Thank you very much,
Lee

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz Feb 08 2012 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

Lee,

Is this outpatient or inpatient? What services are being provided in the addition? At 3,000 SF, it sounds like outpatient. If it is a 'doc in the box', then I would go with NC unless there are patient population issues (HIV clinic for example).

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Neil Rosen Director of Sustainable Development North Shore LIJ Health System
Jan 11 2012
LEEDuser Member
558 Thumbs Up

LEED NC or LEED HC

We are considering a project that will occupy 100% of an existing building. The interior of the building will be a complete gut-rehab and the HVAC systems will be replaced in their entirety.

I believe this would make the project appropriate to the BD+C (NC) rating system.

The facility would be used as a Diagnostic Imaging facility. No patient treatment would occur in this building.
I am uncertain if this project would fall under HC or not.
According to the September guidance document
Healthcare would be required if:
"buildings that serve individuals who seek medical treatment, including licensed and federal inpatient care facilities, licensed and federal outpatient care facilities, and licensed and federal long-term care facilities. These are considered LEED for Healthcare ‘designated’ uses."

Am I correct in thinking that this proposed project would NOT meet this criteria as it is a diagnostic facility only and not a treatment facility?

Thanks

Neil

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Tristan Roberts LEED AP BD+C, Editorial Director – LEEDuser, BuildingGreen, Inc. Jan 11 2012 LEEDuser Moderator

Neil, it sounds like LEED-NC to me, rather than LEED-HC. A lot of the LEED-HC credits are tailored for spaces in which patients are being treated, so this would simply not be a good fit.

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz Jan 11 2012 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

Neil,
I am leaning to the project being HC myself. Will this facility be licensed or under review by the Joint Commission? Then HC. Attached to the Hospital and i2? HC. Engineered to hospital standards? HC. BUT the HC reference guide does say this is an optional program for MOB. Is this building going to be B use and not i2? Then you could go for NC. If you aren't sedating patients deep enough (MRi or PET for example), then NC.

I would suggest scoring the project with both programs and seeing what benefits you the most. Remembering there are additional points in HC under EAc1 and this may be of benefit to your project.

Finally, I would look at the big picture and what your faciilty's goals are for LEED certification. Are you looking to have the campus LEED? Then you may want to make the move to LEED HC.

S

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Lisa Sawin May 06 2012 LEEDuser Member 507 Thumbs Up

Hi Susan and Tristan
I have a similar question about HC vs. NC. We are registered under NC currently and registered before January 2012. We selected this rating system as this building is a medical office building with spaces to run a mental health rehab program ( counseling veterans on returning to civilian life) that is run in larger group rooms. There is some one on one counseling sessions in some of the spaces as well. The building is owned and operated by the VEterans Affairs. There are no medical devices in this building. It is also a B occupancy. With the office spaces/function (psychologists, therapist, counslers, admin and program directors for other programs outside this building, educators, admin, etc) of the building being the majority of the square footage and other portions used as group counseling and one on one counseling (no medical equipment but individuals come for counseling visits) we determined that NC was the more appropriate rating system for our building. Now that LEED mandates the HC rating system for some uses and Given that it resides on a medical campus and is owned and operated by the VA are we be required to move to HC? Or does our use clearly merit NC and we explain this in our narrative? We believe NC is the correct rating system for the building type/user. However It isn't clear whether the HC mandate is for those who registered after January 1, 2012 or whether all buildings that LEED sees may fall under a form of outpatient care must move there projects to HC. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz May 08 2012 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

It sounds like NC to me as well and since you are registered before Jan 1, 2012, you can keep your project in NC.

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Lisa Sawin May 08 2012 LEEDuser Member 507 Thumbs Up

Thank you for the reply Susan.

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James Chueh
Jan 09 2012
LEEDuser Member
944 Thumbs Up

LEED HC IEQ c2

Hi all,
I have some questions on this credit.
1. To meet the Site Exterior Noise, Table 1.3-1 of the 2010 SV Guidelines has defiend the exterior site noise exposure categories A through D, and there are some conditions for each category. For example, because the site is 400 ft distance from the nearest rail line so we choose category C. But if the day-night average sound level we measured is 68dB, could we choose category B? Is there a rule about how you choose the category by these different conditions?
2. We need to meet the speech privacy of Table 1.2-4 of the 2010 SV Guidelines. But I can't find any construction materials with these coefficients, how could I prove the spaces meet the requirements? Does anyone know how to meet the requirements of PI, AI, STI, SII?
3. There are two buildings in this project, one is for clinic and the other is for machenical equipment. Do we also need to consider the site exterior noise of the machenical equipment building? There are only one small office and a center control room in it.

Any help and suggestions will be appreciated.

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz Jan 09 2012 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

James,
1. I think you have some leeway on selecting category B or C. How often does the train run? How noisy is the site when the train isn't running? Did you take your measurements according to ANSI S12.9? If the train runs once a day then I think you can select category B. If it runs more frequently and your clinic has sensitive patient groups, then C may be more applicable to your project.
2. If you are getting hung up on the different indexes or unusual building materials, you may want to consult with an acoustical engineer. The Privacy Index, Articulation Index, Speech Transmission Index and Speech Intelligibility Index are all measured according to ASTMVoluntary standards development organization which creates source technical standards for materials, products, systems, and services/ANSI standards and will depend on the total construction; not the individual elements. Taking a big step back, it seems from your questions that the process is harder than it is intended in the RG. Anyone else have advice/experience with this?
3. For the mechanical building, depending on equipment you may want to build STCSound transmission class (STC) is a single-number rating for the acoustic attenuation of airborne sound passing through a partition or other building element, such as a wall, roof, or door, as measured in an acoustical testing laboratory according to accepted industry practice. A higher STC rating provides more sound attenuation through a partition. (ANSI S12.60–2002) 50 walls for the workers assuming they are there a good portion of their day. Look at how much of their work day is spent in that environment and discuss the noisiness of the equipment with the MEP engineer. It is more likely that you'll be evaluating the impact of the mech. building on the adjacent clinic and the neighbors. Again, it may be a situation where you need an acoustical engineer.

S

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James Chueh Feb 11 2012 LEEDuser Member 944 Thumbs Up

Thanks for your reply,

I still have some questions about acoustic environment.
1. When I refer to "Sound & Vibration Design Guidelines for Health Care Facilities", table 4.3-1 shows Recommended sound isolation performance between enclosed rooms. Take Consultation Room as example, there are only three different adjacent types in this table and the types are Public Space, Patient Rooms and Corridor (with entrance). Does it mean if the room next to the consultation room is not the type of above, there is no limitation in the wall between consultation room and the spaces?
2. There is recommended sound isolation of toilet room in the table 4.3-1. If the floor is only for mechanical or doctor purpose not for the health care such as consultation, exam and patient. Do we have to consider the sound isolation of toilet room?

Any help and suggestions will be appreciated.

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James Chueh
Dec 28 2011
LEEDuser Member
944 Thumbs Up

LEED HC SSc9.1/9.2 again

We are trying to pursue these two credits along with IEQc2 Acoustic Performance. In the referenced standard for IEQc2 "SV Guideline", it states that "Outdoor patient areas would like to require lower sound levels typically not exceeding a day-night average sound level of 50 dB" (page 23, SV Guideline), does this mean the outdoor areas we build for SSc9.1/9.2 have to comply with this acoustic performance as well?

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz Jan 04 2012 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

James,

The intent of IEQc2 states 'indoor healing environment free of intrusive or distruptive levels of sound'. I would interpret that as the patient room inside the building would need to be protected from the Outdoor patient areas but not vice versa. Consider that your outdoor area may be adjacent to spaces other than qualifying patient areas. A word of caution, if you build your outdoor area next to a mechanical area watch the louvers and noise coming out of that space.

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect Wilmot/Sanz
Nov 29 2011
LEEDuser Expert
14010 Thumbs Up

Patient Rooms and Thermal Comfort Controls

I've always counted the patient rooms as individual spaces, not shared spaces, and have provided a single T stat. Yet, we have separate light controls for the nurses, patient and family areas within this one room. My reasoning is that the patient is there 24 hours a day and their thermal comfort trumps that of the nurses (who can spend a majority of their day in a patient's room but spread out to several patients) and the family whose time is more flexible. Has anyone ever counted the patient room as a shared space?

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz Jan 09 2012 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

ETA: private patient rooms.

I'm still counting them as single space.

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect Wilmot/Sanz
Nov 22 2011
LEEDuser Expert
14010 Thumbs Up

HC Addenda issued

The USGBC has issued an Addenda for Healthcare: http://www.usgbc.org/DisplayPage.aspx?CMSPageID=2200#BD+C . Here's hoping the link works.

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Daniela Grotenfelt Miss Larkas& Laine Architects Ltd
Nov 22 2011
LEEDuser Member
125 Thumbs Up

Which rating system to choose?

Nice that you have opened this forum Tristan.

I have a few questions concerning LEED HC. We have a project where 100% of the space is healthcare facility. It is undergoing interior renovation (alterations to space division, non bearing walls and some MEP alterations).

When reading the Rating Systems Selection Guidance (september 1, 2011) Table 2 on page 9 we "must use LEED for Healthcare". However when looking on page 4 and the "Complete Construction" section, complete construction concerns buildings undergoing major renovation. Major renovation is then again explained as including either work on
- the exterior shell AND/OR
- primary structural components AND /OR
- the core and pheripheral MEP and service systems
AND/OR
- site work

At the moment we fulfill none of the for alternatives above. How should we proceed? Do we really need to fulfill one of them, and if so, is installing green roof considered as work on the exterior shell and is there any guidance on the size requirements of the green roof areaRoof area is the area of the uppermost surface of the building which covers enclosed Gross Floor Area, as measured when projected onto a flat, horizontal surface (i.e. as seen in Roof Plan view). ‘Roofs’, or portions of roofs, covering unenclosed areas (e.g. roofs over porches and open covered parking structures) are not included in the areas used to evaluate compliance with SSc7.2, though they may be applicable to SSc7.1.?

I hope you good give guidance on how to interpret the requirements and which rating systems we should choose

Cheers,

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Daniela Grotenfelt Miss, Larkas& Laine Architects Ltd Nov 22 2011 LEEDuser Member 125 Thumbs Up

I checked the addenda up on the link Sarah added. There "A major renovation involves major HVAC renovation, significant envelope
modifications, and major interior rehabilitation. For a major renovation of an existing building, LEED for Healthcare
is the appropriate rating system. If the project scope does not involve significant design and construction activities
and focuses more on operations and maintenance activities, LEED for Existing Buildings: Operations & Maintenance
is more appropriate because it addresses operational and maintenance issues of working buildings."

So the options are not just HC and NC but also EB?

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Tristan Roberts LEED AP BD+C, Editorial Director – LEEDuser, BuildingGreen, Inc. Nov 22 2011 LEEDuser Moderator

Daniela, it actually sounds to me like a LEED-CI project, given the large scope of renovations, which would not fit as well with LEED-EBOMEBOM is an acronym for Existing Buildings: Operations & Maintenance, one of the LEED 2009 rating sytems..

When you register a project on LEED Online, there is a tool that helps you decide which system to register under—perhaps going through this, at least as an exercise, would help.

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz Nov 22 2011 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

The starting date for having to use LEED Healthcare is January 1, 2012 assuming your project meets the requirements. I think you have flexibility and if you're locked into mechanical systems, then I'd try CI also. You can use HC for Innovation Credits and your Owner may see benefit there.

Just a word about your roof garden, if the garden is accessible then the door out to it becomes a regular entryway. As for the size, you'll need to read SSc9 requirements.

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James Chueh
Nov 15 2011
LEEDuser Member
944 Thumbs Up

LEED HC SSc9.1

We have a clinic project that is seeking LEED HC certification, but I got a question on SSc9.1. Do we have to comply with the first half of the requirement for the size of the areas, and then the 30% of it MUST be indoor area, 50% of it MUST be “special-garden”?

The reference guide is very ambiguous on this, as it is stating “…..spaces MAY be used to meet up XX% of required areas…..”

Please help, cheers.

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Susan Walter Sr Project Architect, Wilmot/Sanz Nov 29 2011 LEEDuser Expert 14010 Thumbs Up

I thought the intent was to allow you to count compliant interior spaces as 'nature' and not to require that you have interior gardens.

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