LEED Rating System Selection Q&A

Steve, you didn't say anything about the construction scope?, which is at least half the answer to your question. What is the scope?

Tristan, construction scope? is 100 percent building the whole building from the ground up, it is a new base building, nothing there right now just a plot of land. Then after building it, the JV will pay rent to the owner, the developer. Note, it is the JV (the tenant) that wants to register the LEED program not the owner (developer).

Steve, it does sound to me like a CS project. Ideally, though, the parties could coordinate their efforts and it could be certified as a fitted-out LEED-NC project, which would have more meaning and more benefits in terms of green measures.

Agreed. I am trying to convince the developer to be the one to register and register the NC rating system so as to truly benefit from the green initiatives, however I have to debunk the green cost myth. China is not a sophisticated market, life cycle cost assessment is yet to be understood here. Thanks for the commentary.

Adam,
I believe it's 4 stories minimum; see the related comments to Emmanuel right below.

While it's possible for a residential project with 4 stories or more to pursue LEED Core and Shell (CS) it's not very common. The apartments would need to be empty shells with almost no interior walls, plumbing fixtures, finishes, or lighting fixtures.

If the project is a new building with more than 60% of "interior finishes included in the project scope: flooring, ceiling, wall applications, Mechanical, Electrical, Plumbing (MEP) fixtures" (from LOL v3 Rating System Selection Table 4) than you would follow New Construction (NC); If less than 60%, follow Core and Shell (CS). (MEP fixtures would include heating and cooling units, ventilation fans, light switches, basic light fixtures, toilets, sinks, showers, etc.)

We haven't seen a specific definition for a residential projects for when they should be NC or CS, or how to calculate the % of project scope for interior finishes. Going through the registration process on LEED Online mentioned above, and clicking the links in the Rating System Selection may help explain. Look for Table 3 Core – Interior Guidelines and Table 4 Core and Shell Eligibility, these shows the % of work being done on structure, mechanical systems, finishes, etc.

Most high rise residential projects have been certified under LEED NC, since there are walls separating each apartment, and usually most of the bath and kitchen plumbing fixtures and finishes such as interior doors, ceilings, some lights, etc. are installed by the developer.

Some mid-rise projects with 4-6 stories choose to use LEED-Homes Multi-Family Mid-rise if there is a LEED Homes provider in their geographic region. See: http://www.usgbc.org/ShowFile.aspx?DocumentID=7982

I'm afraid you won't be able to do that. Because LEED CI states clearly, if your building is more than 90% leased or owned by project owner AND new construction or major renovation in 40% or more of the gross floor areaGross floor area (based on ASHRAE definition) is the sum of the floor areas of the spaces within the building, including basements, mezzanine and intermediate‐floored tiers, and penthouses wi th headroom height of 7.5 ft (2.2 meters) or greater. Measurements m ust be taken from the exterior 39 faces of exterior walls OR from the centerline of walls separating buildings, OR (for LEED CI certifying spaces) from the centerline of walls separating spaces. Excludes non‐en closed (or non‐enclosable) roofed‐over areas such as exterior covered walkways, porches, terraces or steps, roof overhangs, and similar features. Excludes air shafts, pipe trenches, and chimneys. Excludes floor area dedicated to the parking and circulation of motor vehicles. ( Note that while excluded features may not be part of the gross floor area, and therefore technically not a part of the LEED project building, they may still be required to be a part of the overall LEED project and subject to MPRs, prerequisites, and credits.) of the building is performed than you need to use a whole building certification system. See also rating system selection guide page 9 or find it here http://bit.ly/yB3ReV page 27

Susann, thanks for the quick response. Then a follow up question: if we pursuit NC for the building then after achieving substantial completion we register for CI on the office interior portion, that is ok right? We'll inherit the automatic 5 pointer for SSc1.

It doesn't matter when you register a project for LEED CI in regards to getting the 5 points for a certified building. It's important that the buildings LEED certification is completed, when you submit the LEED CI project for review.
Also I think your approach should be fine, but I haven't done that so close together and can't say if the GBCI has a problem with it. I can't find a rule prohibiting you from doing so, thought.

Jordan, you need 12 months of performance data for a LEED-EBOmEBOM is an acronym for Existing Buildings: Operations & Maintenance, one of the LEED 2009 rating sytems. certification, so it's not possible in your situation to pursue that just yet. I would look at LEED-NC if you want to get certified sooner.

Thank you for the reply. I should have been clearer that I am looking at EB certification in one year, to allow for the performance data to be collected. But the addition is going through design now, so I am trying to determine how to approach the credit system choice and potential design suggestions now since the NC vs. EB decision has to be made now.

Chris, very good questions. The 50% owner occupied requirement form the BD+C guide is the old rule.The USGBC has introduced new rules per the rating system selection guide, which are more current. So if you control between 40-60% of the spaces and their finishes, you can choose LEED NC or CS. That has been changed because of situations like change owner/tenant ratio. Your case seems pretty clear LEED CS also since your built-out won't be finished for years. However keep in mind that the tenant spaces will also have to comply with some of the credit requirements.
Good luck

If you were in the US, that would be no problem. You would certify your building under LEED for Mid-Rise (Homes). This is for residential buildings between 4-6 levels. For residential buildings higher than 6 levels you will need to use LEED NC. But LEED Mid-Rise is a certification reviewed by a Green Rater not the GBCI and there are non in Europe as far as I know. Looking at the USGBC's website I have to note that they started a pilot program for international Homes/Mid-rise certifications, but looks like you need to be in China or the Middle-East http://www.usgbc.org/DisplayPage.aspx?CMSPageID=147#international
However I would contact Courtney Baker – cbaker@usgbc.org notes as point of contact for LEED for Homes international to see if you can join the program or if you can certify your building as LEED NC/CS despite the restrictions in the guide for rating system selection.
Good luck with your project.

Thank you Susann very much. Most valuable answer! Thanks for the contact, I will ask Courtney how can we proceed.

It may depend on the level of finish for the apartments and whether they are for sale or for rent. Many mixed-use commercial and residential buildings have pursued LEED NC, especially when the apartments are fairly complete in the build out of their interior walls, ceilings, plumbing, electrical, etc. as they would be for rental apartments or many for-sale condos. The key issues is how much control or influence the project owner has over the choices of fixtures and finishes. Some projects that allow a fair amount of customizing will still limit the buyers choices to "LEED compliant" fixtures and finishes.

In some cases, apartments may be sold that are truly a raw shell - no interior walls, finishes, plumbing fixtures, appliances, etc. Historically there have been very few CS residential projects, but if you go through the rating system selection tables in the LEED Online process for registering a new project, you'll see some fairly clear guidelines for scope of work that makes NC or CS more appropriate.

Thank you for the reply David. If we choose the NC system, then how to account for the tenant fit-outs in the retail areas in credits such as Optimize Energy Performance? Would it be possible to apply a Sales / Lease Agreement in a NC project so that the tenants are enforced to use energy efficient equipment?

It sounds closest to CI. You could go through the most recent MPR Supplemental Guidance document stating with that assumption and see if you find any issues. One concern might be the difficulty of distinguishing between the certified office area and the non-certified area within one building - see "complete interior space" in MPR #2. If there is a clear and obvious "boundary" for the new certified space you might meet the exceptions on pgs 19-20.

You may be able to apply EB O&M to an industrial building, but it brings some additional challenges that you may or may not be able to resolve since many of the credits are design for office building systems.

There are a number of discussions on the specific energy issues with industrial buildings on the NC EAp2 and EAc1, topics - under EB O&M, the difficulty is establishing an energy baseline case of a similar "typical building" for an Energy Star score since energy use needs to account for process loads. Portfolio Manager can generate an Energy Star score for warehouses and distribution centers, but I don't think industrial production plants are eligible for an Energy Star rating.

Before committing to pursuing EB O&M, you'd want to do a detailed assessment of the EB O&M MPRs and pre-requisites to make sure it is possible to apply, and then it would be good to assess the individual credits as well to see what level of certification is feasible. For specific questions on how to apply pre-reqs or credit requirements to your project, you might need to investigate the specific forums for the EB credits.

Sergio, from what you describe I think you would be in compliance with the MPRs if you treated the buildings as divided in your first scenario.

For treating them as one building, you have a lot of questions but I would ask you to make your questions more specific and post them under the specific LEED credit forums on this site.

Mario, have you considered LEED-ND?

I would agree that the hotel is suitable for LEED-NC. THe apartment buildings, if they are three stories or less, fall under LEED for Homes, which is not available to all international locations, so those buildings would not be eligible. Depending on the layout, some ancilliary buildings could be lumped in with the hotel certification and boundary—review the LEED Minimum Program Requirements supplemental guidance document.

Thanks for the reply Tristan and for bringing up the ND option!
How suitable, do you think, the LEED ND option is for this project which comprises only of residential villas & low-rise apartment buildings with no other educational or commercial type buildings, the hotel put aside?
Moreover, how time-consuming a LEED ND project certification usually is specially if i'm trying to adhere to the overall project design and construction schedule which will probably not take more than a few months?

Mario, I am guessing that LEED-ND may be more than you are looking to do, but I recommend reading up on the requirements and seeing if it may meet your goals

Gregory, since the buildings are only three stories, I think there is no question that LEED for Homes is the right choice. Were there any other circumstances that led you to question that?

Tristan,
Thanks for your response. In the LEED rating system selection guidance document, LEED NC was recommeded as another option for projects with similar characteristics, which led me to question which rating system my project would fall under.

Emmanuel, I would do LEED-NC for the hotel and LEED for Homes for the home. LEED-CI is not appicable to a home. However, since LEED-Homes is not available overseas except for pilot projects, you may not be able to LEED certify this home. You could contact the LEED for Homes group at USGBC to try to get involved in the pilot.

GB, I would suggest LEED Retail based on the use of space. However, if it truly is going to be a core and shell development, then you probably need to go with LEED-CS, because LEED Retail is built around NC (there also is a CI version).

Lee, from reading the LEED Minimum Program Requirements Supplemental Guidance, I think you can certify the addition alone under LEED-NC. Go to page 14 in the following, and then skip to section II of that part.

http://www.usgbc.org/ShowFile.aspx?DocumentID=10131

Thank you - I will take a look at the MPR Supplemental Guidance document.

IF you are just certifying the villas, and if they have consumer type kitchens (I assume they do) you need to use LEED-Homes. Have you considered pursuing the Multiple Buildings option? You can bundle as many of the building together into a single LEED certification and that would remove the burden of the LEED-H.

Thanks Karen. Forgot to mention that we are going to pursue the Multiple Buildings option. But want to confirm whether we should exclude those villas in the certification if they should be certified under LEED for Homes.

Nathan, I can't think of any particular benefits to pursuing NC over CS, or vice versa. They are very similar rating systems. The only difference would be in market perception. The other consideration is to choose the system that best fits the project, because that will reduce unneeded complications of documentation.

It sounds like CI is the best choice, but you'll want to check the MPR Guidance Revision #2 document carefully, especially pages 18 - 20 to see if your project is "distinct from other spaces." A lease is one way that can be defined.

It might be worth looking at the lease language and see if it makes sense to add some "green lease" language that clarifies the expectations of owner and tenant with regards to the CI certification. For example, a green leases could require the tenant to use VOC compliant paints, cleaning supplies, Green label carpets, etc. Or it might require the owner to not allow smoking within 25' of the space's windows or other O&M practices to maintain LEED compliance.

If other tenants are interested in pursuing CI for their spaces, they certainly could, but in the long run it might make more sense for the university to pursue LEED EB O&M for the whole facility, as that would provide requirements for all alterations, renovations, and ongoing facility management to align with LEED. There could be more opportunities to capture long term utility savings and O&M efficiency by addressing the whole facility rather than each department piecemeal.

You don't have to move to LEED-HC until Jan 1, 2012. If you determine you want to make a switch to v3, you'll want to make the determination this month! It would likely be very difficult to switch a design completed v2.2 healthcare project to LEED-HC.

I believe that you'd be okay if your design submittal is in prior to the sunset date. But what is the anticipated end of construction? I would get that piece of information and email the GBCI again for advice.

Valentin, check out the rating system selection guide.

http://www.usgbc.org/ShowFile.aspx?DocumentID=6667

This says that a CI project should have a fit out going on in at least 60% of the certifying gross floor areaGross floor area (based on ASHRAE definition) is the sum of the floor areas of the spaces within the building, including basements, mezzanine and intermediate‐floored tiers, and penthouses wi th headroom height of 7.5 ft (2.2 meters) or greater. Measurements m ust be taken from the exterior 39 faces of exterior walls OR from the centerline of walls separating buildings, OR (for LEED CI certifying spaces) from the centerline of walls separating spaces. Excludes non‐en closed (or non‐enclosable) roofed‐over areas such as exterior covered walkways, porches, terraces or steps, roof overhangs, and similar features. Excludes air shafts, pipe trenches, and chimneys. Excludes floor area dedicated to the parking and circulation of motor vehicles. ( Note that while excluded features may not be part of the gross floor area, and therefore technically not a part of the LEED project building, they may still be required to be a part of the overall LEED project and subject to MPRs, prerequisites, and credits.).

Krista the comment below might help you answer the questions.
Since you are doing less than 60% of the interior, you can excluded that form the scope of LEED CS. Even if you would do more than 60%, it will depend on your control over the design (see comment below). Do you actually decide over or preselect the carpet, have control over the layout, the mechanical zones,...
However you will have to include interior built-out of common areas for instance the lobby, unless they are also lease or determined by the tenant. I hope that helps.

Susann, maybe you could me? My situation is similar to Krista's. I am certifying under CS but am also designing most of the tenant fit outs (7 out of 9). I have found that there are a few instances where CS credit requirements directly affect the tenant spaces. For instance, IEQc5: Indoor Chemical and Pollutant Source Control, requires 10 foot permanent entryway systems at all regularly used entrances. Technically, the commercial spaces are tenant fit outs, but these spaces need to meet this requirement for the CS certification. I ask this because as we design tenant spaces, which will most likely not pursue CI certification, we need to understand elements that must be included for the CS certification. My office has generated a list of requirements for tenant spaces based on our review of the CS guidelines, but I wonder if you have heard of such lists or are familiar with the issue.

Our list included the following elements that need to be in every tenant fit out for compliance with the CS certification:

High Efficiency water fixtures or fittings
Individualized electrical utility metering
Recycling Bins for staff use and recycling storage areas (if warranted)
Signage to prohibit smoking in the designated areas ( within range of entries and operable windows)
Interior materials that meet leed's low emitting standards
Permanent entryway systems (roll out mats may be possible in lieu)
Compliant hazardous gas/ chemical containment
Envelope and systems designs that meet ASHRAE Standard 55-2004

We also recognize that if these elements cannot be added to the technically tenant spaces at the time of base building design, they must be part of a binding lease agreement in order to comply with the CS system. Any help you could give us for navigating this seemingly gray area would be much appreciated!

It's hard to answer this one without writing a paper about it.
I have done a lot of LEED CS V9 project and I'm very familiar with it. It comes done to understanding what exactly you have control over and what not. Be careful though. Even if you design the tenant space you may not have the final say about for instance the carpet. You need to understand this first before you start determining what you will need to require in the tenant buildouts or lease agreements. Reason being, if you do control the selection of the carpet not just in the common areas but also in the tenant space than you will need to apply credit requirements for IEQ 4 to all areas, which you (project owner) have control over. If you do not determine the carpet selection in the tenant space than you can exclude it.
Also include in you requirements for the tenant EA P2 ASHREA 90.1 mandatory provisions, ASHREA 62.1 (the tenant design needs to comply with that and your design needs to allow him to comply with it). Also check carefully the guidance for LEED CS (appendix in LEED reference guide).
For the credits it's very individual in regards to how much you will have to require the tenant to do. Please post your questions for the individual credits under LEED CS or feel free to contact me directly through LEEDUser.

Good luck.

Thanks, Susann.

You mentioned something to Krista that I found helpful. You said, "Since you are doing less than 60% of the interior, you can excluded that form the scope of LEED CS." Is this language in the BDC reference guide or somewhere on USGBC's website?

The 60% is in regards to whether or not you need to use LEED CS or LEED NC. For instance if you are owner of the building and also occupy 60% of the space than you control more than 60% of it. Per the last USGBC Guidelines for the rating system selection, the majority of a building (more than 60%) determines if you have to use a certain rating system. So in my example you would have to use LEED NC because you are controlling the build out as owner occupier for the most part as well as the core & shell. The same is for a building owner, who controls more than 60% of the interior build-out (doesn't need to occupy it). Since you are using LEED CS, I assumed you are not necessary controlling the tenant space, or only as much as you need to in order to comply with credits and prerequisites.

If you are confused now, that's perfectly normal. I was too, when I first started. This whole subject involves a lot of IFs and WHENs. So if you have further questions please describe the owner, tenant control a bit more and I'll try to get your question answered.

The building owner will have a 1,000 sf office on the third of three levels.Two tenants have their own architects designing fitouts. We are responsible for the other seven, though only 5 are included in the scope with the base building design. Do those 5 spaces have to be included in our LEED CS scope? We'd rather not include any tenant spaces as our client's budget is tight and we expect at least some tenants to change. Down the road, if we did have to include some of the tenant spaces, then they moved out, wouldn't we have to impose the same LEED requirements upon the next tenant in their lease agreement, to maintain our certification?

You will have to include the space occupied by the owner for sure. All other tenant spaces, it doesn't matter if you design them or not, don't necessary have to be included for the credits. Again it depends on what the lease says. If the owner is picking the carpet not the tenant in its space, when you will have to included that carpet too in the credit. Be careful with prerequisites and credits, which don't allow such exclusions, like IEQ P1/P2 all the space have to comply with the requirements.
Also the LEED CS rating system doesn't talk about what's after certification and I have asked one of the GBCI review teams personally about that. Basically you report the status as of the day of submission for final review. So if a tenant decides to do a fitness center instead of an office space after the fact, well then you can't do anything about that and you also don't have to change your submittals.
I hope that answers your questions.

The USGBC dropped the 50% rule for LEED NC vs CS, probably because a lot of time this percentage changes until completion. So a lot of project found themselves in a situation, where they started certification with LEED NC, but actually ended up not occupying that much space. So now it's really about the control of the fit out. Question is do you as owner really control the selected lighting, the carpet, the layout of the floor to the extend that you will have all that done when certifying the building. It's tricky if you choose to go with LEED NC, because for a lot of credits you will need to know exactly, what gets done and how, and how the occupancy looks like.
I suggest to follow the guidelines per the new Selection Guide and ignore LEED Online ( it's probably not up to date yet).
Use the LEED Reference Guide appendix LEED CS for default number of occupants in tenant space, even if you use LEED NC as rating system. Also consider carefully how far you can and want to restrict the tenant in it's interior design and choices of finishes. One last thing to keep in mind, it's my understanding that you have to be done with the entire built-out including tenant space, if you certify per LEED NC. That might delay the submission for your the construction review. On the other hand side when using LEED CS you can start without all the tenant space being finished.

Thank you Susann for your reply!

What about a situation when we in the design stage know the future tenants for some spaces and the fit-out of these spaces is part of the project scope? In this case the fit-out is a matter of negotiation between the tenant and the owner. In other words, the tenant has strong influence on the design of partition walls, selection of lighting fixtures and other fit-out related issues. However, nothing is done without the owner’s knowledge.

Can the owner be considered to control the fit-out in a situation like this, when he is aware of all fit-out related construction work done but he can’t affect the decisions made by the tenant?

Even if the owner does the fit-out, which is usually the case, the questions is who decides,which carpet and which fixtures. The owner can determine it in the lease such as maximum of 0.8 W/sf lighting throughout the space, or only a certain selection of pendant fixtures in a raster of X feet. ... This can quickly result in tenants not wanting the space anymore.
May I ask where you building is located? In the US selecting a compliant carpet with the necessary certifications is easy. In Europe it will restrict your choices by a lot, if it has to be CRIColor-rendering index, or CRI, is a scale of 0 to 100, used by manufacturers of fluorescent, metal halide, and other non-incandescent lighting equipment to describe the visual effect of the light on colored surfaces. Natural daylight is assigned a CRI of 100. Green label plus and hardwood floor with floorscore.

It sounds like your case is better suit for LEED CS and, when in doubt, I would always recommend that. You should discuss with the owner the implications and influence on tenants, if you use LEED NC. LEED CS will not completely eliminate that, but it's going to be much less.

I hope that helps

Thank you again Susann!

It makes sense that even if the owner is responsible for the fit-out related construction works, he can't be considered to fully control the fit-out, since the tenant has its own strong requirements regarding the fit-out features. In that case CS seems to be the better choise.

The building is located in Finland, so I think we will have a hard time complying with the Green Label and FloorScore requirements anyway.

Banafsheh, yes, you could pursue LEED-NC for this building. You cneed at least one FTEFull-time equivalent (FTE) represents a regular building occupant who spends 8 hours a day (40 hours a week) in the project building. Part-time or overtime occupants have FTE values based on their hours per day divided by 8 (or hours per week divided by 40). Transient Occupants can be reported as either daily totals or as part of the FTE. Residential occupancy should be estimated based on the number and size of units. Core and Shell projects should refer to the default occupancy table in the Reference Guide appendix. All occupant assumptions must be consistent across all credits in all categories. to apply the iEQ credits.

To clarify (sorry Tristan) you must comply with the IEQ pre-requisites even without a single FTEFull-time equivalent (FTE) represents a regular building occupant who spends 8 hours a day (40 hours a week) in the project building. Part-time or overtime occupants have FTE values based on their hours per day divided by 8 (or hours per week divided by 40). Transient Occupants can be reported as either daily totals or as part of the FTE. Residential occupancy should be estimated based on the number and size of units. Core and Shell projects should refer to the default occupancy table in the Reference Guide appendix. All occupant assumptions must be consistent across all credits in all categories.. However you may not attempt ANY of the optional (regular) IEQ credits - this is directly from the reference guide plus an administrative USGBC response. Hope this helps!

Melissa,
Typically, high rise residential buildings with a core and shell retail podium have been NC. You are allowed to have a C&S portion of an NC building that will be built out later for retail tenants if you provide a tenant manual with guidelines that promote and encourage LEED compliant materials and systems, even if you can't technically require them to be followed. Use the C&S default FTEFull-time equivalent (FTE) represents a regular building occupant who spends 8 hours a day (40 hours a week) in the project building. Part-time or overtime occupants have FTE values based on their hours per day divided by 8 (or hours per week divided by 40). Transient Occupants can be reported as either daily totals or as part of the FTE. Residential occupancy should be estimated based on the number and size of units. Core and Shell projects should refer to the default occupancy table in the Reference Guide appendix. All occupant assumptions must be consistent across all credits in all categories. number in the appendix to calculate the whole building FTE that includes the future retail and assume standard/ code compliant lighting and HVAC equipment for the model.

The bulk of the building makes more sense to treat as NC since residential units are built out to a greater level of finish than a core and shell office - unit walls, HVAC, most plumbing & electrical, even if final fixtures may be selected by the tenant. I've just never heard of a residential project certifying under Core & Shell, though would love to hear of any if they exist.

According to the rating system selection guide you will have to use LEED NC.
http://www.usgbc.org/ShowFile.aspx?DocumentID=6667
page 6 lists all residential scenarios and there is no mentioning of LEED CS. They did change the application of the rating systems a little bit in this new guideline from June 2011.
However it still is not really clear to me reading the guide if LEED CS might be applicable for a project, which does not included the entire interior fit-out.

I just received the reply from GBCI--not unexpected: "As long as the project can meet all of the minimum program requirements, prerequisite credits, and obtain enough points under the Core and Shell rating system, then you may select that rating system for your project."

Thanks to your previous comments, I've been setting up the pathway for NC, and for two of the three buildings I am certain to follow NC, but I'm going to re-review the Core & Shell option for the third project which has a much higher percentage of retail space (about 20%), it may be a better fit for that project. The developer is not providing HVAC or lighting to the retail lettable areas. However it will depend on the level of fit out to the apartments, which is still under discussion.

Sabrina, I think you have some options here. You could potentially do it as one project under LEED-NC, if you can coordinate everyone to the extent necessary. Or you could do LEED-CI just for the tenant work.

George, it sounds like LEED for Schools for the whole building. Even though the parts of the building have different types of work being done, 100% of the building has work being done at the level of renovatin or construction appropriate for LEED for Schools.

According to the LEED rating system selection policy, LEED for Retail is appropriate for "buildings or interiors dedicated to the sale of goods or commodities directly to consumers who come onto the premises for the purpose of obtaining those goods or commodities."

I would say that a car dealership fits this description. Any other thoughts?

Tristan, thank you very much!

There's a thread from last year that addresses this question - feel free to follow up with any more specific questions:

http://www.leeduser.com/topic/man-hour

We've seen this happen - If someone buys the whole building before the certification is complete its reasonable for them to take over the CS certification process by changing the ownership info in LEEDOnline and resubmitting the necessary agreement forms. If the design and construction team doesn't change too much they can just continue as planned with their documentation - that's what matters most to the GBCI.

The new owner could pursue CI for their own space, even if it was the whole building, in addition to the CS certification of the "base building." CI was designed to complement a CS certification since it addresses different aspects of the building - primarily the office "build-out" of interior walls and finishes. It's a bit more trouble to pursue two certifications, but that's probably the best solution if there are different designers and contractors involved in the office build-out who weren't part of the base building work.

If there's a new owner who takes over the whole building before the design work is complete they might want to consider switching over to LEED NC since that might be easier than two certifications (CS + CI), but it would need to be early enough so that the Design Phase submittal could include the base building and all the office build out.
Hope that helps!

Dear David,
I'm still a little insecure about this. We also have a C&S building, which was bought by a single owner, that will occupy the entire building.
The Rating System quotes: "Tenants who lease their space or do not occupy the entire building are eligible."
So, could you send me the source of the informationthat says we can have CI for a hole building/same owner?
Thank you!

Ramesh, you can certainly pursue LEED-NC certification for a swimming complex (or natatorium). Is that your question, or is there anything more specific you're looking for guidance on?

Thanks Tristan for your great reply. I understanding that LEED certification will be applicable if the swimming complex will be closed and airconditioned. Will it be possible for open swimming complex also which is not be aircondtioned.

Hm, to answer that question you should consult the LEED Minimum Program Requirements. I would say that it is possible, but calculations for some credits will be tricky.

I don't see why not as long as it meets the MPR for minimum square footage.

Ramesh, based on the scope of the renovation and full owner occupancy, it sounds like an NC project to me.

One of the other project have 3 blocks and each blocks having G+2 floor. The client is not owner of the building, but they have lease agreement with the owner. 100% of the building area will be utilised by our client only. Here they are not changing any envelope or exterior except changing the glass. They are not changing the water fixture. But they are renovating whole HVAC (including chiller), electrical system, and interior layout. They are not doing any changes in sewage treatment plant, stormwater design etc. This building will be used as office with lab. Could you please tell me which rating system will be suitable for the project having the above details.Will it be in LEED CI or LEED NC?

We just asked GBCI that exact question (your first one) and here is the response. We're going with CI still because we aren't changing the envelope, site, and structure.

It really comes down to what sort of mechanical work is included in the project scope based on the definitions of "alteration" and "major renovation" in the Rating System Selection Policy. It is likely that the project is not actually doing a "major renovation" for 40% or more of the gross floor areaGross floor area (based on ASHRAE definition) is the sum of the floor areas of the spaces within the building, including basements, mezzanine and intermediate‐floored tiers, and penthouses wi th headroom height of 7.5 ft (2.2 meters) or greater. Measurements m ust be taken from the exterior 39 faces of exterior walls OR from the centerline of walls separating buildings, OR (for LEED CI certifying spaces) from the centerline of walls separating spaces. Excludes non‐en closed (or non‐enclosable) roofed‐over areas such as exterior covered walkways, porches, terraces or steps, roof overhangs, and similar features. Excludes air shafts, pipe trenches, and chimneys. Excludes floor area dedicated to the parking and circulation of motor vehicles. ( Note that while excluded features may not be part of the gross floor area, and therefore technically not a part of the LEED project building, they may still be required to be a part of the overall LEED project and subject to MPRs, prerequisites, and credits.) (stated in line item #2), and much of the work could be considered "alterations" – be sure to evaluate your project scope to clearly identify if you are in fact doing a major renovation or simply alterations.

The project team could use CI provided that are not doing any work to the exterior shell or the primary structural components of the building. The key statement is 2) the same entity is conducting new construction or major renovation in 40% or more of the gross floor area of the building. If you are doing your CI space, and also doing what is considered a major renovation on at least 40% or more of the gross flore area of the building, only then would you be required to do NC.

I would lean toward this being NC, based on doing new construction of a significant portion, plus over 40% of floor area alterations.

I could see this being a possible CI project as well. Perhaps go through the rating system selection tool via LEED Online registration?

Diego, I don't see any reason that a warehouse could not apply for EBOMEBOM is an acronym for Existing Buildings: Operations & Maintenance, one of the LEED 2009 rating sytems.. Does it comply with the minimum occupancy rates outlined in MPR#5?

Thank you very much Tristan, the wharehouse complies with MPR#5. We will give our clients this information.

Tony, you can earn the prerequisites through lease agreements—see CS Appendix 4 in the LEED Reference Guide for more detail on this. I think that should take care of it—let us know how it goes.

You may be in a bind - I believe that if you switch from one rating system to another, you would need to register for the current version, so I doubt you'd be able to switch to NC 2.2. And it sounds like changes in occupancy may no longer qualify the project for CS. You'd probably have to inquire or petition directly to the GBCI to know for sure, but I wouldn't be optimistic.

For #1:In the past, most mixed-use buildings with residential above and ground floor retail have been NC. The retail space was often only built out as core and shell, which is fine with NC when more than 50 or 60% of the building is being built out and finished, in this case for residential units. A Tenant Improvement manual establishes guidelines for future retail TI's to encourage compliance with LEED goals, even though it may not be enforced as a requirement.

More recently, mid-rise residential projects have been given the option of pursuing LEED Homes for Mid-rise, which has some advantages over NC, but any ground floor retail is typically excluded from the project and not certified.

If the basement area is not included in the retail leases, you may be better off following the NC or Homes route and consider the building as more residential than retail. I've just never seen LEED-CS applied to a residential so not sure how well that would work. Is there any reason you'd prefer to pursue CS?

#2 I suspect GBCI may not let you register two buildings as one project if they have different mechanical systems. I think they'd encourage you to use the "Block" feature to share some credit information between the two projects to reduce redundancy. There have been other discussions about the Block feature on this site, with people having mixed results, so you may want to check on that. If the two buildings are essentially identical, you might have a case, but would probably need to confirm that with GBCI.
Hope that helps!

In relation to this then, would the first floor retail space be "exempt" from meeting the NC specific requirements? IE Controllability of Lighting, Thermal Verification, etc?

The LEED boundary for a CI project is intended to be the entire tenant space (see MPR #2 & 3), which sounds like is two floors in your case.

Even if the scope of renovation work is limited to a few new walls and finish materials, you still have to document the energy and water performance for the entire space, whether they are in the scope of work or not.

So, yes, the whole tenant space needs to comply with all prereqs for energy efficiency (ASHRAE 90.1), commissioning, ventilation rates (ASHRAE 62.1), plumbing fixture efficiency, etc.

Diaa,

USGBC has launched an international pilot for LEED for Homes projects located in China and the Middle East. Please visit http://www.usgbc.org/DisplayPage.aspx?CMSPageID=147#international for more information and an application to participate in the pilot.

You can certify a mixed use building under LEED NC or CS. The more important question would be does your client use the building itself or does it get leased. I'm in the process of certifying a mixed use building in Germany with LEED CS and we are also designing a mixed use building with manufacturing and office according to LEED NC at the moment. Please feel free to contact me with any questions. Ich bin Deutsche und wir beraten Firmen in Europa bei der LEED Zertifizierung.

Andrew- I am not sure I would even know where to start on a comparison of the two Rating Systems, because they really are focused on two entirely different scales. The Neighborhood Development Rating System will require you to have a great deal of control over not only the buildings themselves, but also the roads, walkways and infrastructure that connects them. You would also need to make sure that the area the buildings are in would actually meet all the ND prerequisites. If you're really focused on the buildings primarily, I think you will likely be better off going with individual certifications.

A key point in whether a bedroom is residential or commercial is access to a kitchen. Bedrooms + no kitchen = hotel/commercial. Bedrooms + kitchen = condo/residential.

Sounds like this might be more of a hotel situation. I would look to use as much wiggle room as possible and go with NC if you prefer to. 

Yaser, USGBC is currently seeking interest from project teams working on projects in the Middle East and China for involvement in the LEED for Homes International Pilot. Please visit http://www.usgbc.org/DisplayPage.aspx?CMSPageID=147#international for more information and an application to participate in the pilot.

Jennifer, I think you are correct that LEED-NC is the right choice here. However, if you use the 40/60 rule given in the rating system selection policy I could see an arguement being made for LEED for Homes. Seems like you have some choice.

Do you view the LEED-Homes Multifamily Mid-Rise as the required rating system when the project is over 60% residential? Or is LEED-NC still an option?

Elizabeth, I would say that LEED for Homes would be strongly recommended at 60% residential, but not necessarily "required." Are there particulars from your project that you'd like feedback on?

Elizabeth: To me this sounds like a LEED for Homes project (3 stories, mostly residential, individualized HVAC) and will certainly be cheaper to pursue as HERS rating is almost always cheaper than commissioning. If the project is 4 stories, then it is LEED-Homes Midrise. Both regular Homes and Mid-rise have guidance for the commercial tenant space that will also be more flexible than NC.

Based on the rating system selection policy (referenced above), I don't think you could pursue LEED-CI for just one floor. See the #1 and #2 provisos in that doc for LEED-CI.

Hi Tristan,
i'm wrongly mentioned on my previous statement. the building been occupied for some time now, and the building owner decided to renovate one of the floor, therefore asking whether is possible to apply for LEED CI. ?
FYI:
the whole building is a personal properties, same management, sharing the same electricity and HVAC system.

Not sure if you're still asking the question, but my response hadn't been based on whether the building was occupied but on the policy document. I would review that if I were you.

Tristan, thanks,
yes, i read the policy + tried to register to LEED new project online and the system guide me to LEED CI base on the information i shared with you.

thanks again.

Thank you for the link! I came across this document a month ago but had trouble finding it on the USGBC and GBCI sites. It is exactly what I need.

Tristan,
I've been trying to figure out what system to use and happened to run across that document prior to finding this thread. It's helpful but not "exactly" of course.
We have a project which is a warehouse. The owner will be renovating it specifically for two manufacturers who will each also have offices, and a spec office area which will be finished out with basic finishes. They'll be doing some sitework, new mechanical/electrical/plumbing, moving a couple of interior walls, and adding an elevator. The elevator is currently the only work planned for the envelope.
My problem is I can't figure out if LEED-CI is what I should be using or not! This project doesn't seem to cleanly enough fit in any category. Perhaps it would be considered a "major renovation" and therefore under LEED-NC?
Can you help?

Caroline, one thing to keep in mind is the the rating system policy is just guidance, and projects do have some discretion.

Definitely sounds to me like only LEED-NC is big enough to encompass everything you're doing in its scope.

What do you think of statements #1 and #2 under the LEED-CI portion of that document? From what you're saying, they both suggest to me that LEED-NC is the way to go.

Tristan,

I think you're right. I suppose I just needed someone elses opinion!

Thanks :-)

We are working on a 10 story mixed use project; 45% residential and 55% office and retail and would prefer to register the project under LEED NC. Greater than 50% of the project will be complete at the time of certification. I see references in previous posts to a requirement to provide a TI manual for future tenant fit outs but am having trouble finding specific reference to and direction for this in the 2009 BD&C reference guide or on the USGBC website.

I am looking for guidance regarding which rating system to use. Our project is a three story, 40,000 sq ft commercial office building in the final stages of construction. We had approached the design using LEED-NC v2009. Since then, we sold the majority of the first floor, resulting in 9,500 sq ft of area (approx. 24% of the gross building area) belonging to a separate owner. We own 30,500 sq ft and will occupy 26,500 sq ft (66% of the gross building area), with the remaining 4,000 sq ft of our property having an unfinished interior for future tenants. According to the Rating System Selection Guide V4 updated September 1, 2011, we should use Core and Shell then could do Commercial Interiors for our finished spaces. But LEED Interpretation ID# 10102 (dated 11/1/2011) says “No more than 40% of the certifying gross floor areaGross floor area (based on ASHRAE definition) is the sum of the floor areas of the spaces within the building, including basements, mezzanine and intermediate‐floored tiers, and penthouses wi th headroom height of 7.5 ft (2.2 meters) or greater. Measurements m ust be taken from the exterior 39 faces of exterior walls OR from the centerline of walls separating buildings, OR (for LEED CI certifying spaces) from the centerline of walls separating spaces. Excludes non‐en closed (or non‐enclosable) roofed‐over areas such as exterior covered walkways, porches, terraces or steps, roof overhangs, and similar features. Excludes air shafts, pipe trenches, and chimneys. Excludes floor area dedicated to the parking and circulation of motor vehicles. ( Note that while excluded features may not be part of the gross floor area, and therefore technically not a part of the LEED project building, they may still be required to be a part of the overall LEED project and subject to MPRs, prerequisites, and credits.) of a LEED project may consist of incomplete space, unless the project is using the LEED for Core and Shell rating system.” So which rating system or systems can we fit under? Selfishly, we would prefer to use NC, since we have done most of the documentation and registered under that system. Are there any options to stay under NC? If using NC, would the Letter of Compliance from the owner and non-binding Tenant Design and Construction Guidelines satisfy the requirements, when having incomplete spaces?

If your company is occupying and controling the buildoutThe time at which all habitable buildings on the project are complete and ready for occupancy. of 66% of the gross building area you should be fine pursuing LEED NC. Having TI guidelines for the incomplete spaces should also be fine.