Living with LEED Online - quirks, bugs and hiccups

The same happens with our Windows 8 notebook...

The same thing happened to me. I turned compatibility view on for the website and it fixed the problem.

Ivan, I don't know—I would contact GBCI.

Dear Ivan:
You can resolve this problem? I'm in the same situation, because I cannot log in LEED Online. I receive the same message: "Invalid E-mail or password" . I would be grateful if you could explain the solution, If you solved this problem.

Thank you

Mina, please contact GBCI for help with this. They'd be much better positioned to assist with a problem of this kind.

I have several clients that experienced this problem. In Internet Explore click on the "Tools" pull down menu and then click on "compatibility view" so that a check-mark appear to the left of "compatibility view". This should fix your problem.

Mina,
In addition to making sure that your compatibility view shows leedonline, you have to make sure that you are using Adobe X.1.4. Not AdobeXI.0, not Adobe X.

See the following thread:

http://www.leeduser.com/topic/leed-online-and-how-make-it-run-fast-googl...

it makes LOv3 run MUCH faster but it requires Google Chrome and a plugin. See the comments for any concerns.

Melissa,

yes. I had an awful time administering a LEED NC 2009 project in 2010. The GBCI's website intermittenly failed to notify me of an invited consultant's acceptance of my invitation, AND the GBCI had the "invitation" expire after 24 (48?) hrs - how ridiculous is that? The terrible difficulty is that the GBCI also built into their scripts that once an email address had been used, it could not be re-entered; I had the 'pleasure' of calling a senior CEO and asking if he would let us submit his home, personal email address for 'signing' the Project Information forms! What a disaster; he refused. A real black eye for the LEED cause on that one.

Andrew,
The way you describe it the situation was exactly the same. In this case both were senior engineers. I managed to solve the problem for me, but I'm not sure I can count on their participation in future.

I'm having the same issue. Our IT Dept has been trying to resolve following directions...without luck. Any word on when LEED Online will resolve this adobe upgrade issue altogether?

I'm facing this same problem, but with Windows Vista. Quite frustrating.

I have two versions of Internet Explorer on my machine, one is 64 bit and the other is not. If you are using the 64 bit version, try using the one that is not the 64 bit version. That worked for me.

Nicolas,

You say you followed "all the instructions" so maybe you already tried this... but is are viewing LEED-Online in your browser's Combatability Mode? If not, try that. Otherwise I suggest giving GBCI a call.

Thanks Emily. I tried the compatibility mode. I have wasted too much of my time on that matter and I have finally given up on this. I'm now using an old computer to access LEED Online...
Good luck to the others ;-)
Nicolas

Our company computers are set up with Google and a site license for Adobe Pro in a slightly earlier version than the latest Adobe Reader. every time any of us interact with LEED Online, we have to switch to Internet Explorer and change computer settings to use the latest Reader, make sure that the "Compatibility mode" that Emily referred to is on, and so on , and so on. It seems that someone decided that "better" doesn't include "easier", "faster" or "less costly". I wonder a lot about that.

I, too, have a Windows 7 64 bit machine running Adobe Pro and more current versions of Reader than LEED Online was able to recognize.

I was able to get LEED Online running on my Windows 7 64 bit OS by
getting IT to set up Windows Virtual PC on my computer, so the computer runs like 32 bit Windows XP. This includes separate firewalls and virus protection. I then hunted around the internet for old copies of Reader that are compatible with LEED Online and installed that into the virtual machine. Then I had to configure IE to work with LEED Online's requirements, making sure it was a recent enough version to work and that compatibility mode was properly set up. It took the better part of a day, but now I can manage LEED without firing up an old machine in the back of the office.

Then I made LEED Online the homepage of IE, because the only reason I fire up the virtual machine is to run LEED Online.

I just called USGBC on this very issue, and am awaiting their IT department to call back. We'll see what happens...

Just for clarification, it's my understanding that you need to run a 32-bit version of Internet Explorer, not of Windows OS. 

I had the same problem. I have Windows 7 (64 bit) and I had to uninstall and rid my computer of all of the updated Adobe Reader files, then install the older version of Adobe Reader 10.1.1. I then set that as the default PDF program and set it not to update automatically. It was a pain, but now the pages load.

SOunds like the engineer does not have his IE set to compatibility mode - what you describe are the exact symptoms of that.

Maura -

GBCI told me that the latest Adobe Reader upgrade is not compatible with LEED-Online. They recommend you downgrade and sent us this solution below. It worked for us:

1. Please Uninstall 10.1.2 from Control panel(add or remove programs).
2. Install 10.1.1 from the link.
http://adobe-reader.en.softonic.com/download-version/adobe-reader-10.1.1
3. Please set Adobe Reader as default PDF.
4. Please make sure to de-select the Windows auto updates so the Adobe Reader does not automatically update again to the new version.

Where's the link? Adobe only has the 10.1.2 option here: http://www.adobe.com/downloads/.

sorry - I updated the post above and here it is:

http://adobe-reader.en.softonic.com/download-version/adobe-reader-10.1.1

Be sure to turn off Adobe automatic updates or it will update within the day!

I went back to 10.1.1 but this hasn't solved the problem! I still can't access any forms.

Maura you should send an email through the gbci feedback or customer service link. The removal of the reader on some people's systems is not complete and they now have a fix (Adobe batch trick) that fully removes and makes the older version the default.
I am rare to defend the LEED Online process, but this was a bug generated from Adobe releasing an update with a known issue that messed up all our interfaces. They will get you the 2 files you need to fix things - just ask.

Make sure you completely uninstall Adobe Reader, restart, and then reinstall the older version as linked above. Also make sure that automatic updates are turned off in Adobe Reader. This is an Adobe issue with any HTTPS site on the internet, in all browsers. LEED Online v2 still works as it is not HTTPS. Adobe is aware of the problem but has not announced a fix yet. You can track this issue at http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/877/cpsid_87775.html - It is currently the last bullet under the "Browsers" section. Refreshing the page as suggested will not work, because refreshing within LOv3 brings you back to the Scorecard and not the credit form.

Hi there,
Coming back to this post. I'm on Windows 7. Both Adobe pro and Adobe 10.1.2 were on my computer. Since I still didin't have access to the LEED Online forms, I switched from Internet Explorer 9 to the 8, switched from Adobe reader 10.1.2 to 10.1.1, followed all the instructions, put the reader 140.1.1 as default, etc. But I still cannot access the Online forms. I sent two feedback message to the USGBC but I get a general auto-reply about the Adobe reader problem. Is there anyone who faced the same problem than me?
Thanks for your help,
Nicolas

Strada, I haven't heard anything.

I complained to the USGBC via their website, and received a voicemail saying that they're working on it. I'm not holding my breath.

As painful as I find it to read all these comments, I sure hope and pray that SOMEBODY at the GBCI, or maybe even at the USGBC, is reading and paying attention. My 10-year on-again, off-again minor frustration at the NEEDLESS difficulty (i.e. time-cost, monetary-loss) of working with LEED is growing into a disturbing fear that GBCI's hired army of lawyers and bureaucratic administrators, who are are like generals woefully out of touch with their soldiers, are dealing a deathblow to the future of LEED: I have dedicated, 10-year, triple-certified-projects clients asking me what I know about GreenGlobes, and consulting engineers who no longer offer a fixed-fee for pursuing LEED registration! The M.O. at GBCI has been to throw something out there and then see if it floats, as if all the lost time suffered by teh LEED design team is only a minor, and unavoidable inconvenience for them. I was shocked during this week's LEEDuser's MPR#6 webinar at how often the GBCI presenter said 'oh, yea, we know that doesn't work ('is a problem', 'needs to be fixed', etc, etc), and we're HOPING that MAYBE we MIGHT be able to .....' My LEED certification Online time tripled on my last LEED 2009 project over the previous 3 LEED v2.2 projects :(

I'd suggest getting Internet Explorer for your MAC. 

I"m with you on this, Elliot. Internet Explorer is no longer made for Macs. I tried Chrome, downloading an older Safari, Firefox... nothing works.

Have you contacted GBCI about this? Any response on when it might be resolved?

Thanks, Tristan. Fortunately, I was able to download (again) an earlier version of Safari--after permanently deleting the 5.1 version--and that's done the trick.

I suppose someone needs to keep poking at GBCI to get them to finally get compatibility with 5.1, so I'll do so. Are you holding your breath?

Clearly I have not tried to put IE on a MAC in a while!

Elliot, one more thing, I would caution you that sometimes with LOV3 and Safari there is some funny scrolling you have to do to see whole credit forms. A co-worker had some trouble with it appearing that things were missing when really you have to scroll within the frame to see everything.

Glad you got it to work!

I haven't been able to find an older version of Safari that works on my Mac (OS X 10.6.8). The ones I download all fail to install.

I've been accessing LEED Online in IE by running Windows on my Mac using Parallels. It's painfully slow, but it works.

Yes, let's hope that the LEED Online team solves this for the new Safari soon!

I have another solution for Macs that only takes a minute to implement. I haven't confirmed that this makes LEED Online FULLY functional with Mac/Safari, but so far I have gotten a lot further than I had been.

Under Safari --> Preferences --> Advanced, check the box to "Show Develop Menu in Menu Bar."

Then, go to the Develop menu in the menu bar and select "other."

Then, replace the text that appears there with the following text:

Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_6; en-us) AppleWebKit/530.3 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Safari/530.3

With this solution, you are telling LOv3 that you are Safari 4, even if you are Safari 5.  And it seems to buy it— for now!

Thanks for the suggested solution, Tristan. Fortunately (and yes, I AM holding my breath), the older version of Safari I downloaded is allowing L/O to work normally. I did recently email to L/O feedback that it's taking them an inordinate amount of time to resolve this issue and how many users it's affecting. No reply as of yet.

I'm commenting because I did get a reply to my email on this subject --they advised me to download earlier versions of Safari, operating systems etc. Unfortunately there are other compliance issues for me so this hasn't been an option, and we tripped up also on the Adobe Reader version which stubbonly resisted downloading as an earlier version we we finally abandoned this complicated and frustrating exercise of reversing all my connected software. I've taken to logging onto other people's PCs if and when available and printing things out for reference when they're not and hoping not to wear out my welcome. Clients not impressed.

I will however try and see if Tristan's method works for me. All suggestions welcome!

All this suggests that we Mac-using industry participants are not wielding a heavy enough club. As the saying goes, strength is in numbers. If everyone affected by GBCI's apparent decision to drag their feet on this submits their complaints via the feedback link on LEED Online, I'm going to believe that the required upgrade will more quickly move up the priority list.

Tristan,

I tried your solution, but it is not letting me access the forms. Should I downgrade my acrobat reader to access them?
Any other recommendation?
Thank you very much!
Elliot, I submitted my complain through the feedback link to put some pressure.

Roberto, I don't know. It's just a patch, and obviously not an infallible one. I did not have to downgrade my Reader -- I am running 10.1.1.

I hate this situation too. But it's probably worth noting that Apple radically changed how Safari handles PDFs with version 5.1--apparently part of Apples ongoing battle with Adobe. So, as I understand it, there is no easy fix for the LEED IT folks--Safari just won't read the forms the way it used to.

Maybe they can start supporting Firefox or Chrome instead, as they still use the Adobe PDF plug-in.

Safari 5.1.2 was just released, and it claims to support viewing of PDFs within websites. Maybe that will solve this problem? 

I just ran the update and tried it, but I keep getting a nasty system error when I try to click from my project list into a project. I haven't entirely lost hope, though--LEED Online is also running an alert that they will be taking the system down for "emergency maintenance" tonight. Maybe they'll fix whatever is causing that error and this new Safari will solve our problem?

If anyone finds out anything conclusive, please let us Mac users know!

I am pulling my hair out trying to find a solution to this problem. Just tried Tristans suggestion using the development tab trying to trick L/O into thinking i was using Safari 4. Tried to install Safari 4 but get the OSX error message. Do want to buy parallels, but that seems like the only option at this point!?! I have two project that need to be submitted and this bug has us stopped dead in our tracks.

LOv3 was down for maintenance on Dec. 16th and I was hopeful for a fix of the Mac issue, but it doesn't seem to have been delivered. Firefox compatibility is still shown as 3 to 4 weeks away on the LOv3 system requirements page (and there is not a date on that page).

Yes, its even a bit worse at the moment--I can't even get to the project page now, previously it was only the forms I couldn't access, but I could do overall project administration. I've not received any reply at all from GBCI about dates so I think you have the most up to date info. Thanks for continuing to post about this.

I received the following feedback from GBCI that the "missing plug-in" PDF problem is due to an Adobe update. Below is what they sent to me and it did work for me. (Ongoing trick will be keeping the rest of the office from updating Adobe!) Also, note that I had to go through the Feedback tab on LEED-Online for this, not the GBCI customer service.

Adobe has launched a new version of Adobe Reader 10.1.2 that is NOT currently compatible with LEEDOnline.com at this point. The upgrade is automatic for some users, so you might not have even been aware that the upgrade took place. Please downgrade the Adobe Reader to an earlier version for the forms to open.

Please follow these steps :
1. Please Uninstall 10.1.2 from Control panel(add or remove programs).
2. Install 10.1.1 from the link.
3. Please set Adobe Reader as default PDF.
4. Please make sure to de-select the Windows auto updates so the Adobe Reader does not automatically update again to the new version.

Downgrading the Adobe Reader to the previous version will resolve the issue and allow you access to your forms.

For you MacOwners with a savvy tecchie supporting you, I want to pass on a radical solution that so far seems to have solved every one of my issues: install a virtual PC inside your Mac and use it just for LEED On Line access. You can share files on a common access, but its far simpler if you don't need to edit office files in the PC, just use it for accessing the website and transferring documents. I admit this is not going to work for everyone but I have swapped the stress of borrowing other people's PCs for peace of mind, at least for now.

We truly sympathize with the inconvenience and frustration this has caused. We are trying to provide a solution that will work around this issue created by Adobe and Mac's incompatibility. Since this issue is beyond our control, it'll take us some time to come up with an acceptable solution. And for anyone interested, the underlying issue is documented by Adobe on this page: http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/908/cpsid_90885.html. Thanks, Megan R/S

Good news, mac users. It appears that the latest version of Adobe Reader - 10.1.3, just released last week - is compatible with LEED Online. I was able to view and edit credit forms in Safari 5.1.5 without incident and no workarounds required. But Safari needs to be running in 64-bit mode, not 32-bit as is suggested on the LOL system requirements pages.

Yes, it worked for me too:

(1) Reader 10.1.3, Safari 5.1.1, OS X 10.7.2 (on an iMac);

(2) Reader 10.1.3, Safari 5.1.3, and OS X 10.7.3 (on an iMac); and

(3) Reader 10.1.3 / Acrobat Pro 10.1.3, Safari 5.1.5, and OS X 10.7.3 (on a MacBook Pro).

Set Safari for 64 bits. Don't have other tabs open in Safari. Set Reader as the default pdf application.

It worked for me too! Thanks!
If you need to restart Safari in 64 bit mode, this is how to do it:
- During start-up hold 6 and 4 keys together.
That worked for me on a macbook pro.

I found another alternative that seems to be working so far for me - a web browser from Omni Group called "OmniWeb" - it's a free download from a well-regarded developer of Mac software. So far it at least seems to open and allow printing of the forms, which is more than I could say for Safari/Reader in our current all-Mac office setup as of a few weeks ago. Seems like the Safari issues have been resolved, but if you ever find they are "broken" again, you might try OmniWeb as opposed to the virtual PC type of solutions.

I think that Minimum Program Requirement #2 is going to cause you some problems. It states "The LEED project includes the new, ground-up design and construction, or major renovation, of at least one commercial, institutional, or high-rise residential building in its entirety." That triggered a large discussion about how to handle additions. They have released multiple supplemental guidance documents on additions and whether/how they qualify for LEED certification. For example it must have a separate name and they also discuss separate metering so you can comply with the energy/water usage reporting requirement. I see that they have just updated the supplemental guidance so I haven't read through the most recent version yet, but you can find it on the MPR page here: http://www.usgbc.org/DisplayPage.aspx?CMSPageID=2102

Carrie, Thank you so much for the heads up on the June revision of the MPR and the MPR Supplemental Guide. I am deeply disturbed by the thought of possibly having to abandon ship 12 months (and how much of the Owner's money?) into our efforts because the USGBC revised their MPRs! I've looked through both, but do not see any reference to separate metering; can you help me out and point me to that? Thank you!

Andrew - check page 19 regarding the "entirety" requirement, and then the definition of "physically distinct" in the glossary. There it talks about separate lighting/HVAC/plumbing and sub-metering requirements. If these truly cause problems for your project definitely find someone at USGBC to talk to before "abandoning ship". Somewhere along the way they did state that it is not their intention to exclude certifiable projects and that they were willing to discuss unique situations. Good luck!

Carrie,

I REALLY don't want to sound unappreciative of this fantastic website aned your knowledgeable help, BUT.........after preparing myself to disavow LEED foreverafter, I rattled cages at GBCI, getting more andmore confirmation of EXACTLY what you said (e.g. MPR 2) until I finally sent a "I-can't-believe-your-doing-this" nastygram and immediately got a phone call from someone who asked what the project was and then "oh, no, of COURSE, not", the energy reporting excemption is still there; it;s at the very bottom of PIf1, where you select "exemption" and then separate water and energy categories appear to select.

Andrew—forum moderator here. Your post is a little confusing. Can you share more clearly what the outcome was for you? Did GBC simply say "no problem" in the end on MPR#2 despite policies to the contrary? I am not surprised, but at the same time, Carrie's advice was also spot on, both on what the MPR says and on checking with GBCI.

Tristan, ABSOLUTELY! Glad to help others, as hey have helped me. The summary is:
1. Last fall I read the MPRs and sent to a project Owner, advising of greater Owner involvement, responsibility and commitment, but also saying that the most potentially disturbing rqmnt, of reporting energy & water use data for 5 yrs, had an exemption for when that info was not available.
2. As I began work on, this month, on LOv3 PIf1, I came to the part that offers three options, NONE of which had an exemption. It looked as if the Owner HAD to do what he could not do (without spending a lot of money to add meters to the project already under construction).
3. I asked GBCI if they had eliminated the exemption, maybe 6 times, via 2 routes, but could not get a reply, so I joined LEEDuser and submitted the question, only to get a more worrisome reference to MPR 2 with the implication that maybe our project would not be compatible with LEED NC.
4. After asking GBCI another 2,3 times, I finally got a reply, but with the SAME reference to MPR 2 with the implication that maybe this project wouldn't qualify for LEED NC.
5. I've done 3 silver, 1 gold and 1 platinum certified buildings so I was really dumbstruck and sent a nastigram out of anxious desperation.
6. Sarah Alexander, Director of LEED Certification called me and, while talking with her, I read MPR 2 and said that every sentence either didn't apply or was not a concern. She then asked me what the project was and when I described it, she said that it sounded fine and asked me what the basis of my concern was; I told her that I had been stopped short by the lack of an energy reporting exemption and she said that it IS still there: As you read PIf1, you come to the part where you have to select 1 of 3 options; that stopped me, everyone else on our team, and the Owner's facility engineer. Sarah told me that the exemption is not near the 3 options that require selecting, but at the very bottom of the form, where one only goes to "save form" !
BTW, she DID clarify that LEED-NC will be getting a lot more rigorous about allowing LEED Project Boundaries that include additions and a misc. scattering of existing spaces being renovated, but with overwhelming relief sweeping through me, I missed the chance to ask if (a) such projects 'need not apply' or (b) if those projects need to exclude the renovation areas from the LEED Project Boundary.
If this reply to too lengthy, please fell free to excerpt as appropriate. Thanks, Andrew

Dear LEEDuser & Others,

I have a follow-up question that my gut tells me is worth a CIRCredit Interpretation Ruling. Used by design team members experiencing difficulties in the application of a LEED prerequisite or credit to a project. Typically, difficulties arise when specific issues are not directly addressed by LEED information/guide, but it seems kind of kooky that our client should have to pay that much money just to find out how to apply the new June 2011 MPRs to the LEED Ratung System: If LEED-NC has shut the doors on projects that combine additions with renovations (as was recently corroborated by Sarah Alexandar, GBCI Director of Certification), then what does one do, for example, with regard to SS-4.,1 if there are showers and lockers in the existing facility but not in the addition? Abandon the credit?

We're having enough problems with trying to get our engineers understanding how to analytically split the HVAC and control systems that are covering 4 existing operating rooms being renovated and 4 new operating rooms, so that we can "leave out" the renovation part of the project, so as to comply with the MPRs! CRAZY! Thanks to all.

Even using that method it is agonizing to comb through to check progress. One thing I really miss from the old LO is the "Date last updated" that displayed above each of the Download Template buttons. That way you could tell at a glance if it had been changed since you last looked. Now you have to open each form and try to determine if anything has changed. I have provided feedback on this and will do so again in an upcoming roundtable discussion we have with Nabeel about LOv3. I'll also bring up some of the other issues you guys have noted here if someone else doesn't mention them first!

Carrie,

Excellent! Thank you. Nabeel has told me several times that he is anxious for every bit of feedback that he can get, wanting to make it as good as he can while keeping the number of revisions to an affordable minimum.

As an update, I figured out that the problem was with my windows 64bit computer. I recently upgraded. When I tried another computer in the office that was at 32 bit (the las one we have), it worked fine.

Ellen, I think this FAQ from USGBC may help with your questions. But I'm not sure so please post back with your thoughts on where this leads you.

Yes, that does help, thanks Tristan. It seems that we do not need to worry about uploading this form until the certificaiton process is complete. I suspect that we may run into the same issue then, but at least it will not hold up the design submittal.

Two thoughts on this; (1) you cannot 'work' with LOv3 forms do ti the security protection, BUT YOU CAN PRINT THEM TO A NEW PDF, which can then be worked with. (2) If you need to upload something from an Owner (e.g. scanned letter), select the "alternative compliance" box at the bottom a form and (so I'm told) that will then enable you to upload what you chose to.

Clint, I don't know of a resource like what you describe.

About your questions on shading, could you point to a couple specific examples that we could help decode?

Being tied to Internet Explorer, Flash, and Adobe's copy protected form system is a big pain at my end. Depending on our Team members' hardware and software, I'm spending a lot of time just getting LEED Online working for everyone. In an ideal world, everyone has IE 8, Flash, and Windows all up to date. In reality, this is not the case.

I understand USGBC needs to protect their copyrights, but having to learn a new browser (IE) is onerous. You should support Chrome and Firefox ASAP, and use open standards instead of PDF.

Not to mention Mac OSX support...

Just my opinion!

Peter, very good observations.

I want to make one clarification—when you address USGBC, saying "you should...." in your comment it makes me wonder if you think that this website (LEEDuser.com) is part of USGBC. It's important to us that people know that we're an independent site offering support to LEED teams.

Good point, Tristan.

Looking back on my post, it was clearly written after a long morning of wrangling consultants and doing basic computer support!

"You" statements are always dangerous, and I didn't mean to cast that net too wide. I'll be more careful with my words. I will say that one of the great things about this site is that it seems USGBC is at least listening to the comments here. (I'm also noting I accidentally replied to an unrelated thread instead of starting a new one...)

I learned of such a matrix just today. It's downloadable as an Excel workbook here: https://www.usgbc.org/ShowFile.aspx?DocumentID=9300

I actually logged in here today in the hope LeedUser might have written instructions on how to use this "Form Data Matrix," because it's not intuitive to me.

Very true - It's not intuitive, and I haven't seen any instructions. The first tip I'd offer is to expand the plus sign "+" in the far left edge of the worksheets - start with that and post back with any questions....

I have found that when you are seeking "Alternative Compliance Path", once you select this option a text box opens. Enter the description in that box and the credit will show "Compliance Documented:" at the bottom of the page. Obviously this does not mean you will be granted the exception, but it does allow the form to marked complete. I would think that this would be the same for "Special Circumstances". At first I merely checked the box and then I found you actually have to ad text to make it register.